The Weekly Cheek
The Weekly Cheek

Episode · 2 years ago

7. Women in Politics: Clinton, Gillard, Bishop and Harris


This is part one of our two-part series on women in politicians. In this episode, we talk about Hillary Clinon, Julia Gillard, Julie Bishop, Kamala Harris, and Penny Wong.

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Hello, I'm Christin Parison Otto and I'm had a focus and and we're co founders of cheek media. Go this is the week the cheek podcast. The kind of professional woman that conservative men want professional women to be. Yeah, quiet, I have boost bumps because I hate him so much. He's so disgusting. My mom signed me up to the young littles. Oh my God. Welcome to another episode of the weekly Cheek podcast. This is part one of our two part series on women in politics. In this episode we talk about Julie Bishop, Julia Gillard, Hillary Clinton, Kamela Harris, and we also touch on Penny Wong. Hannah also shares a secret that's been ten years in the making, unbeknownst to her, which we both found quite comical but also quite terrifying. Hope you enjoy the episode and make sure to come back next week for part two on women in politics. I don't know enough about Julie Bishop, but I think that in some ways, not knowing enough about someone who was such a prominent female politician in Australia kind of proves it, like she wasn't all that m yeah, I mean I made a whole podcast episode about her own Peter and politics, my personal podcast that was sort of peas with my sister. I just think that she I just feel a bit let down by her, to be honest. Yeah, and I feel like she was the token woman for the Liberal Party. Absolutely, and I don't think she I think she felt as though her being woman was enough to take the boxes and she didn't use her position to fight for women. Know, and I also anyone who knows me will know what I'm about to say, but I could not stand when Julie Gillard made her misogyny speech and then the media went to Julie Bishop and was like is Tony Abbot of a soogynist? And Julie Bishop was like no, he's not, and then a few years later, after she left her well, was pushed out of her job, she said Tony I was misogynist. Yeah, I remember talking about the podcast of about like, obviously she couldn't have said at the time. MMM, but it's just even people who voted for Tony Abbot now he's a misogynist. Yeah, clear is day. Yeah, in his entire value system, HMM, is based in the base, in patriarchy. He is a total man's man and I think it's like, Julie fucking come on, yeah, I don't know what she could have done. I don't know what would have made me please. So I think it's like, in some ways it's unfair to be like she lied. Of course she lies trying to keep her job and when she lost her job was like the truth comes out. Literally, I was reading a up on Julie Bishop yesterday and the thing that was most prominent when I googled her name, the articles that came up were how her red high heels were a prominent feature of the two thousand and eighteen leadership spill. I'm a lot of people took photos of her shoes. They were like but dazzled red heels, and I saw like so many photos and I just thought it just says so much. Obviously the medis portrayal of hers and not her fault. By understand, understand, but I honestly have I can't even think of any speech I've listened to her give. I can't think of any sort of empowering policy. I can't think of any thing she's done that's empowered women in politics or that's even made her a prominent person as a female in the Liberal Party, like I can. Yeah, agree, she's a draw card for them, to say the support women. She was the first to show and foreign minister that was female. Yeah, but again, it's like she was always just this silent person in photographs. Yes, such a quota to me. Yeah, and the thing is I looked up her history and she's had a brilliant career as a barrister. HMM, like it's just so confusing to me that I literally don't know. I can't even think of a single quote, no single event in her timeline. Besides like her actual positions that she's held, I don't recall any time that she fought for women at all. And she also, I think this is she said. There's also when she finished up in the government, but she said that like when she was sixty, she reported that sometimes people didn't listen to her when she was only woman in the room and at the time she didn't understand why and then later on, a few years down the track, she figured out it was because she was a woman. I was like, are you know, so privileged that you just figured that out? It was like a visit to me because I remembered I watched an interview Malcolm Turnbull on the ABC when his book was being released last year. I remember that he was talking about the spill and the vote and someone said, like what about Julie Bishop? And he was like, oh, that's just not and he was like Julie was never going to get the votes, like there was no turn out for her. And I thought, like, she's been a prominent member of that party in really prominent cabinet positions. Yeah, for years, but is she a prominent politician? No. Again, it proved how much of a draw card she was. Yeah, how much of like a Woman's card she was for the Liberal Party. That like Malcolm Turnbull, who is actually quite a champion for equal...

...rights. I yeah, and like he's too as far as liberal PMS go. He is not liberal. Yeah, and for him to say that, I thought that's so, so much about her character and sort of yeah, she's not a champion of women, I don't think. I think she got through by just like playing a man's game. Yeah, and I don't even somewise you support that sort of a view, like I was just sitting. It's okay, I was about to address that actually. So sometimes I think that people that a lot of women and we spoke about this in previous podcast, but particularly second way of women, a second way feminist embrace mail traits to get by. I don't even think she did that, though. I think she kind of just like skated by really quietly and like didn't make a fuss. Like obviously when people were ignoring what she was saying, she didn't do anything about it because she was like, Oh, I do wonder why they're not listening. Maybe they're maybe I'm invisible to them like that. She like there was some quote from her saying that it was like she was invisible or is like that they were deaf to her her words. I think she's not. Yeah, I agree with you. She's not playing the man's game. I think she's skating through being the kind of professional woman that conservative men want professional women to be. Yeah, quiet and she's she's actually a really stylish conservative woman, like her dress is always like like I think that when you think about her, like people comment on her outfits and things. She's stylish from but she's also the also the politician that released a perfume. Yeah, and as like that, she really moved through the ranks being a woman who is happy, wants to be in a professional position but will not sit up to the boys. Yeah, and kind of just like sort of flitters through and got through on them wanting to up rank a woman for their look. Yeah, exactly, and she was a perfect person to say that. I have a question for you, M it's might be a bit controversial, but do you think that perhaps some women voted liberal because she was there as the token woman? I don't think so. I mean there's one MMM, but it generally you don't think so. No, I I think if you're a liberal vote, your a liberal voter. Yeah, I don't think that Julie Bishop even had enough of a political identity for people to be swayed by that. Yeah, I think maybe when they look at the lineup, I think Julie Bishop is the perfect argument point. If someone says, Oh, it's not even enough representation, yeah, then someone draws Julie Bishop out in a member of the public, a level voter. Yeah, but if you're a voter, I don't think it bothers you whether Julie Bishops President or not. I think it's a symbol in your mind of representation, because I actually can't think of another like from that time. Yeah, from say, five years ago. I can't even think of another prominent liberal. No, I mean there aren't very many. No, it is Julie Bishop. Yet again. She's so silent to me. MMM, like glad US represents so much more, and I think that's probably the product of coronavirus. Yeah, and just the prominence of all the public attention and the fact that they're fucking on them news every single minute of every single day. Yeah, but yeah, I don't think it's the difference. Interesting, I it was something that crossed my mind, but I think you're right that it's somewhat they it is like an argument card. It's just like if someone does start to have a go, because the liberals famously have quotes a woman problem. If you haven't watched the ABC of four corners, what is it? It was a fourth on as episode. Yeah, son, I view it was focusing on the sort of sexist issues that are kind of concealed within parliament, particularly to do with the current attorney general. Yeah, it's name, Christian Porter. Yes, that's it. Yeah, it's it appears to be a disgusting peak. Yeah, yeah, appearly really, I'm not to anyone else. Apparently they were like I'm fine. And there was someone else. I think it was the it was the one of the ministry who had the affair with the media lators, Hu, minist of Human Services, I feel I think so. Yeah, I definitely happened. Oh and one of the classmates you spoke out against Christian portals from from the Bar Ye by association, really just for speaking out because she was one of his classmates at Univers Wa. Oh my God. And Yeah, they they stood it down. There were nothing to the foot corners episode. Wasn't what happened. She'll be okay, though, because people will give her a job. Yeah, after that, that was disgusting and also like, because I did kind of have I had a you know, use that for counts. Episode is fuel in my debates with a couple of thirtain people in my family and they were like, you know, it was about Liberal Party, but it's not just the Liberal Party, which I understand. Yeah, and before we move on from from Julia, I'd also do like to there's too many jewels has. Before we move on from Julie Bishop, I would just like to note how angry it makes me watching her in...

...the background of Julie Gillard's misogynye speak. Sorry, I know we cut through that a bit, but I completely agree. Whenever I watch that, is she like nodding at she just sits there. She sits there blankly looking at yeah, I don't think she knoweds. Doesn't think she does anything. No, she doesn't accessing it. Is there a response that she nods out? But no, she's just blankly staring at Gil out. If yeah, doing something, you're wrong. Yeah, like sitting behind Tony Ab and all those like schomos there, I think as well. You just know there's been a conversation that like a locker room talk situation between those men in Liberal Party. Yeah, Bishop's been a part of yeah, a sure she hasn't said anything, but she knows how to do it. Just I guess it really makes me mad and coronavirus has made me extra mad at how many issues become political issues. But when you have someone who is such a misogynist like and also, like you said that mentioned the leadership spill, there were they were bloody spilling all over the place, like I just don't understand why Julie Bishop was just there and just letting it happen and being like, no, I didn't see it and like saying that stuff to the media. It's just I don't know, like I see why, but honestly, at that point, when you are have a position that's that high, I just feel like it's not an exte it's not good enough. Yeah, makes me mad. It's I I will always feel sorry for Julia Gillard. Yeah, always, and I remember when she became prime minister. I was twelve M so I have really rough memories of it. I remember going into school and it was when carbon tax was kind of how yeah, everyone was like the ridiculous. When you think about it, was really progressive, very progressive for that time, because what it was? It two thousand and twelve, I think, so it was very early. Yeah, and I remember because, even as a child, I couldn't understand what was wrong. Like I just couldn't understand why people disagree with the policy so much, because I was like, you are literally charging people so very little per ton, HM, massive corporations, actually holding large corporations accountable, yeah, for their environmental impacts. Yeah, why is that evil? HMM. And it was just so just concerning to me because I remember all my classmates being like Oh my God, and I was like you're like my parents were hardcore liberal voters. MMM, I my mom signed me up to the young liberals. Oh my God, I'm not sure if I'm if this is a horrible I'm going to say this. On my birthday this year or so, in July, I got an email from the young liberals saying thanks for ten years being a member. Happy Birthday. I had no idea I was a member. You didn't know until the other day. I didn't know until July when I'd like literally unsubscribed and left. Oh my God, I was signed up when I was ten because I was really into debating, a public speaking and my mom was like obvious, my parents a liberal voters. And Yeah, I said like, why don't you sign up? You'd go to like an event, you could like start doing debating like outside of school. And they said, and they didn't contact you for ten years. Oh, I think it was going to my spam and just one made it through. Yeah, but I never saw an email before that I'd they met. It made it through because it was a personalized email. Yeah, so now, Oh, I realized that if I ever go into politics, that's actually going to be on your record. I wouldn't go. I would never, ever run as a liberal candid but ever, ever, ever, so now I'm like fuck, that's like worse some n base, some photo put on man before you vote, before you run. But yeah, I got to air that because that is just the shame of my two thousand and twenty, honestly ten years. Oh my you, your mom, would have to speak publicly about that if you were to run. Just sorry, mom, I don't even. I can't, like, I don't remember signing up. I might have been with her, but I was like ten or twelve. Yeah, just doing some prep for when you run. Anyway, just about the side, attrack. But Oh my arm, he's this. She's gonna be like, Oh shit, maybe I should check out. Wasn't signed up to anything. Oh dear, that's traumatizing. Yep, sorry, God, I had to tell you. Actually, what I didn't tell you dats the funniest thing ever. I was like, this is actually serious again. It's actually could be bad. Should you want to career in politics? Okay, okay, let's me up. That's it's bigcause the issues. I thought it wasn't the time, like I thought I was exaggerating. It's not. It's actually no it's really bad. I mean for a political career. Anything else then is fine, I think. Yeah, but if you want a Korean politics, at some stage the emails going to come out. Speaking of emails, they're going to destroy you, Hillary Clinton. Yeah, I I actually and I think this is an issue that most people are unwilling to admit, but do, like have an involvement of this. The else saga before the two thousand and sixteen election was actually incredibly difficult to understand. Yes, it was. It was a complex issue which I haven't wrapped my head around yet, because the only content I really consumed has been hilary propaganda.

Yeah, because I've watched an SPS documentary. Yeah, for Hillary, which basically gives the explanation that she when she became the secretary of State, she just combined her email servers. Yeah, and she used her the same server for her personal emails as her work emails. Yes, and then when the CIA demanded her emails, she gave them the work Emoun that write, the personally amounts, but which makes sense. But that's one side of the story. So yeah, and essentially the side of this policy. Wise, that's actually perfectly allowed. Previous secretaries of state had done the same thing. That's why she did it. She's a Clinton pattern of behavior. She's at Clinton. She was a nominee, hmm, for the yes, she's a Democratic nominee for that year. She was a woman. Yeah, and the reason is you're supposed to hand over all your professional work emails that are like attached that server, but she had a lot of private emails. That was like friends of has had cancer and like that's a lot of it was personal. They're probably may have been emails. We don't know about that. She classified as personal but should have been handled over. I didn't know if that's part of the issue. Yeah, but essentially the issue was that people thought she was being deceptive one for using that server. Yeah, I'm for both personal and work and I thought that was against policy, which it wasn't. Yeah, but also that she was deceiving someone or manipulating the system because she wasn't handing over the entire yes, that emails. Yeah, but I think eventually she had to. I think so. Yeah, I also so I like watch this part of the DOCO series very intently because the I get like for me as well, the email sing went totally over my head. I don't really think it reached Australia in the same way, but I also think that people in the US didn't understand. No, that's just like my God, what a seat. And also part of the issue that I remember it being that they highlight on the DOCO that I didn't really realize was this whole issue happened like before the nominee. Was it like, yeah, she became the nominal name. Yeah, it was supposed to be done eleven days before the election. Yeah, the launched a fully fledged investigation into it, like a CEI investigate. Yes, so after the grabbing by the Pussy. Yeah, so it became this like federal issue two weeks before an election. Yes, which is huge. Yes, it is. And from my PR perspective, and to be I've I've never been like Hillary stand honestly, didn't even know very much about her, but when I saw the DACO series came out or I saw it pop up on my feeds and I was like, Oh, that might be interesting, because I really don't know a lot about Hillary. I wanted her to win, obviously, but I didn't think that much about it because I was like trump is the alternative. Yes, and I thought woman President Cool. So I wasn't like a massive fan, but when I after I watched the DACO series, I came out of it with a lot more respect for her and a lot more understanding and, honestly, from a PR perspective, I just thought that I think that they were telling the truth about the emails, because otherwise, because their response was kind of like what, like, what do you want me to yeah, I don't know why, it's a thing. That's what I holds. Yes, exactly how holding was like. We didn't. We came out and know where we didn't understand. And the thing about it is, if it really was a problem, they would have prepared for it. And they really have the best exactly. They had the best of the best on their team. They wouldn't have had a media team who didn't, who went prepared stand the policy exactly. But then, and I haven't actually watched and for the movie or a series about the guy who headed up that investigation, and I know that it's out on something, one of the streaming platforms. Have you heard about it? Oh, it's called the Komi rule, so the COMI rule. I haven't watched it, but apparently what it does go into why he kind of because, you know, basically because he sided the investigation trump lost the election. I mean trump on the election, if only, and that is kind of the like that's widely understood and, yeah, and agreed upon. So it goes into why he did what he did. And again, haven't watched it, but basically I think it's he apparently he just legitimately thought there was some corruption that need to be investigated and he said that he didn't. He was neither trump nor hillary supporter. Yeah, but everyone said he was just doing like trump's dirty work. Yeah, so, but I don't know, I don't know, it's just I just think that it was too conveniently close to the grab by the Pussy, because that wasn't a big enough that wasn't as big a deal as it should have been. Absolutely and by that point it was like Hilary has won the election and this is the now in the coffin. Well, I yeah, I think when that view came out, everyone thought here it is, he is Clinton's win, and she was more like, I just don't think so. No, exactly. I mean I think it's really interesting because I think something that the documentary communicated to me Hillary Clinton. I'm surprised in some ways because Hillary Clinton presents as all the features of a...

...woman that a more conservative country is going to vote in his their first president. MMM, she's quite private, she's quite emotionless in a lot of ways. Yeah, and so in many ways I was thinking like this is the perfect person to be the first in my president, because she is a more centrist left sort of Democrat. She's a very practical, pragmatic leader. She's held a lot of high office positions, but she remains quite steady, stable and secure as a person. But on the other end of the spectrum, I feel like in many ways, America kind of wants an icon, yeah, as their later yeah, Obama icon. They want someone knew, they want someone to completely disrupt the status. Quote I've had for a years and I think that's what trump was. I think that's what Obama was, but I think that the public had too much history with hilary. Yeah, and I do think that Bill Clinton made her but also broke her. Yes, I was going to say that too. I was going to say she, I think could have would have had it one easily if it were not for the Bill Clinton thing. But also, we don't know if she would have had the opportunities that she had had she not been a part of that. Honestly, again, watching the Jock, I think that she could have made it on her own up. Yeah, with some but, but it would have been more like who, how many other men could have partnered hilary? Yes, because he's a very like special kind of yes guy. And what I say like made and broke her. I don't mean like that's the reason she's in the public eye, I mean in I think. Sorry, that's actually exactly what I mean. She is so successful in her own right, like I had no idea before I watched this series. Yeah, how like, honestly, I think she was one of the most definitive feminism, for one of the most definitive fen my God, keep that in. One of the most definitive feminists of the second way. Yet UND percent. And I think that obviously she's kind of become more central, so some more moderate as times gone on. But or do you think the worlds just become more yes, radical? Yes, because I think she now appears to be quite like a stock standard. She's like your mum's Hero. Yeah, think, yeah, and I think I was just shocked like watching the Docu series about like she changed her last name all. She added Clinton because I think the people of Arkansas needed that. Like ne yet her as like a first lady of the governor, to give them something. Yeah, and it kind of depressed me so much. Changed to do those things, because she was a law partner, but she had a full tight like she had a full time career, a baby, she had all these was making more money than yeah, and yet they were like, well, that's not the kind of lady we want in you know, it's married to our governor. But yeah, well, wow. But it was really depressing to watch because she was just such a hard caut like they changed her outfits. They got on. That's there's a scene which Christ and told me and it kind of got me to watch it, like it was one of the most influential parts. Is like where she's gone from being a part of serious key policy decisions, m to then being like calling Bingo, yeah, and nursing home because they need to like change her look. Yeah, it's she also said she kind of made a comment that was not so. Essentially, there was kind of like a press attack, like she was clearly overwhelmed and her response to one of the questions was like well, what would you rather me do, like sit at home and bake cookies? Yeah, and what she was indicating with that statement, like it was taken out of context. Essentially she meant like, as far as First Ladies Go, like do, is that what you're going to do instead of like actually having some sort of strategic impact in office? Yeah, exactly, but sort of America took it as like you disrespect the work of state and mother's Yes, yes, which what she was actually saying was like that's not me. Yeah, and I'm like why you, like, what is your problem when I'm trying to do something? And somebody who I know, one of my close friends, said, when I was telling him about that I was watching the Duco series, he was like Hilary has been groomed to be president for her whole life, and I was like no, she's not, because she's a woman, like she literally clawed her way out thought. But yeah, I remember there's a part. There was a part when they were kind of first something could date, where he was like Oh, you should run, yeah, and then she was like no, no, yeah, because I where do you think that would get me? Like exactly. The thing was that she was such a successful person to her own right. But the reason I think that, if it was like the way I say, Bill made her. He didn't make her because he made us successful. That's not it. She was so successful, but the reason she's in politics was because he brought her in like kicking and screaming, almost, because it's very happy excelling in her in the legal field. Yeah, but she had opportunities to get into policy and like making bills and like running campaigns because she was doing it with him. Yeah, well, she wouldn't have given...

...herself that opportunity. Exactly, and I honestly think by the time she ran for the nomination, like against Obama, she was at the point where I think the best politicians get to this point where they're like, I have to run, because what's going to happen if I don't? Yes, like that's how I think. That's why I love people. I think. I think that's the right reason to get into politics. In a way like yeah, that's actually why I ran for council, like, if someone's going to do it, I'll do it. Exactly. It was like, well, what's you know, at some point you need to stop being like, well, that's shit and they made the wrong decision. It's like I have to do it myself, like if I want it to be done the way that I believe is right, that I need short myself. Yeah, and that's why I think she felt running against Obama and that's definitely how she felt the next time. Yeah, particularly because even I'm not even talking about trump, like Bernie as well, like she didn't think it was right that Bernie Sanders would win, like she'd thought that he had the wrong ideas. We talked to a little bit more about second way feminist and we touched on Hillary Clinton in our Moma me episode, just episode three of the podcast, if you like, more after this one, and we talk a little bit about Hilary v Biden. Yes, so I'm not going to go into that at the moment, but I think that I think unfortunately, the fact that hilary lost against trump set America back a little bit in the quest for a woman president. But now we're looking at Kamala Harris, who is arguably being prepared to become the president next term after Biden. Yeah, should everything go well, I think it's fine. I think it's going to go, but like twenty days, don't we as it twentys. I honestly don't think trump is going to. I think he's done. No, I think so too. I think his own party started to turn on him. And yes, I don't think he's got pincers support. I don't think he's got pence has blind support, and I also think he burned himself out with all of these lawsuits that he's kind of like forgot. I also think there's an element of acceptance here, because he started partnering people. Yes, and that's a kind of an acknowledgement. Yeah, it's going. Yeah, and you can't retain what you've got, so you're just going to sort of burn the bridges and Save Yourself. Yeah, exactly. A lot of people are saying that they don't think he's going to go to the inauguration. That's really interesting, but so disrespectful. Ever, I wanted to go to is. Well, a lot of people, but the important people went. No, yes, I mean like here, yeah, whether bomb, obviously they had to go. Yeah, Michell had to like kiss come Milani on on the cheek. Anyway, let's talk about come up, and I think, I mean I again spoke about this in my podcast. We also mentally, also animal with MEA. Yes, we also much about it. We're talking about how people will come out, I think, and say things like actually, I want you having something to say. Didn't you do? You're going to say it. Oh, yeah, about like I think a lot with CAMELA. Yeah, I think a lot of people would say things like, Oh my God, but she voted on one time. This bill is one provision bowl, but I think we actually need to acknowledge and kind of move forward with like a this is a win. Yes, this is a win. Yeah, and it's exciting to have a first vice president and first by vice present of color. Yeah, moving in for the next four years. Yeah, but I agree that it does. It is sad that with Hillary's loss comes this sort of symbol of or it's going to take a while longer. Yes, yes, and honestly, if it only takes two terms, I think that's really good. I thought it would take much longer. I mean Julie a Guillard has been gone for a while and we haven't seen other one. There's no there's not even anyone in the horizon. But even looking back, I'm thinking like New Zealand have three female prime ministers now and we had our first one in two thousand and ten ten years ago. Like America is so far behind. Yes, but then again, I do think Hillary did, overall, have more vote. So there as this element of there's capacity to win. It's just that there's this definition and distinction between states. Yeah, it's hard because Hillary got so close against trump, but also like there was so much history that I'm actually surprised in some way she got that close. Me Too, when I and I thought that when I was watching the DOCO and actually wrote an article called with the weight of the world on her shoulders in you can read on Cheek needcom today you under the opinion tab, and I talked a lot about the and this is the thing that I had throughout the whole Daco series, is every time she, hilary kind of made an achievement or achievement, achievement, had an achievement, had an achievement, every time reach. Yeah,...

...every time a hillary achieved, she it was it was like I'm the first woman to win the Democratic nomination or the nomination of either party, like she was. I just isn't like body. Yes, exactly, and I was like, but she also did it herself. She's not just like the first woman. I could just really sad to me to see, particularly after everything that she's done. I mean she was the first lady. You could argue that she was more of a VP than a first absolutely, I. There's this bells that clipping from the documentary where they start to introduce both of them. Yeah, they say President Bill Clinton and Vert First Lady Clinton, because it again, I think a huge element of that series was they were kind of the first team to run exactly. There's never really been a woman in the first lady position that had this capacity to work and be a part of huge decisionmaking. Yes, yes, and you could argue that Michelle did that, but I don't think to the same extent as an Larry. She still kind of wrote like a line. I think that Michelle Obama was like a champion of the people. Yeah, me too. I think she didn't take in take on this sort of position of prominence in political strategic policy sort I don't think she felt comfortable doing so, but I think that she definitely was someone who went out and kept the campaigning side of things. Yeah, absolutely, Yes, and I think, like all of the media, that she made like she was just essentially one of the most popular first ladies has ever been, Michelle. Yes, yeah, I mean I think Hillary was face the biggest backlash out of all of them. Really she did. But then also, if Michelle, Michelle could never have acted the way hillary acted. Yes, because she's black. Yes, and so that she had like another hurdle. Yeah, and I totally agree that she was more the the woman of that, more of the typical first lady GDS, but she kind of accomplished them to I don't know, with some a bit more involvement rather than she didn't really ever come across as the token ISS stick first lady. No, I completely agree with that. I think she was. And Michelle was always big on education young people and actually being at the community yeah, she was definitely the face of that sort of administration in many ways without actually doing being in the rooms. Yes, exactly, I completely agree. The public wouldn't have accepted that. No, definitely not. And also I think that I actually, when they were talking about our Kinda Harris, like the first one of color, I was like, what about Michelle? But Michelle, yeah, I always forget that she's not. Wasn't actually like didn't have like a in quotes, political role. Yes, but I think, I I wonder if Kamala Harris would have been able to, like, if it would have happened if it weren't for a like Baraccan Michelle. I don't, I don't know. I think it's just like that whole connection, like Biden connected to Obama, who first black president, and then choosing, you know, a woman of color as his VP running mate. I think that was all interconnected and if it weren't for like one, there wouldn't be the other. Absolutely, and I also wonder, because obviously Biden's quite old. HMM, if he will be able to go for eight years, if you'll be able to go again for or like. I think there's a lot of sort of chitter chatter, not just Chit, I was going to say cheers, some Chittern firstuffs and chitter around the places, like shout on twitter with a camel. I could run as the democratic sort of nominee in for years. Yeah, and I actually just don't think America's ready for yeah, right, I just don't. I still don't. I think I actually do think it will take two more terms. Do you think Biden will run again, I'm not sure how their actual sort of like policy on these things works, but what if he was to say, in three years, step down and then she was to take over for the final year as other and so it's like, as in how it kind of have a Guillard like yeah, wins in a spill or yeah, like as a deputy, moves up then by definition, becomes the president and then could get voter back in. Yeah, yeah, that's w you don't thought? I don't think that she could. You not sure if America would vote her in? I think they would revote her and if she was already yeah, got Cha. I mean it's so much easier to yeah, stay in. Yeah, trump. Yeah. Well, I think it's more like if she's got the expirit, like if she's already been declared and she's had time to make a policy, be at the helm and like obviously the you know, the Republican states, especially the red states, see the capacity there. Yeah, look, I'm not sure how much influence that would have anyway, but I think that it's like if it was if it occurred that way naturally and then she was able to run having been in the position for a year. Say, yeah, I think that's more possible than say, Biden in three years when the kind of campaign starts again, to Ye think, I'm not going to do it. Camel can camel it will be. Yeah, I don't even actually don't know how that works. So if he was to say I can't do it, if she would automatically then be I think, yeah, that should be the point of the VP.

Should or not? I think so, but it doesn't happen in America. Well, this is the other thing. Like I when you said that, I was like will do? I think Biden will step down after three years, because seventy eight, okay, but he has been trying to be the president since he was in his late s. So do you think he will, in quotes, give up his seat? It's not even that. But he'll be eighty two. He will, but he's been trying for then. He would be eighty six by the time he's done in. He's done eight years. I I think that he would hand it over in for but I think that I think that their advisors would say, we don't think camela will get the votes to win, but if you hand it over a yearly, she might. I just I I would hope that he would do that. Yeah, but I'm just wondering, because of all of that history, like how long it took him to get there, if he would be like three years as Anna. Yeah, I actually agree with that and that's why I think it would struggle. So, say if he was like I will do one term and then some to other to new people could run complete the democratic elimination. Yeah, I think then we'd struggle to have a woman, because I think I don't think anyone would. Yeah, I think you're right, but I really think that it's because of how prominent camel R is right now. There's huge potential. Yeah, because I think that as the first female of color as a vice president, there is huge symbolism around that and usually, like, especially in Australia, we don't really know who the vice president is. Like I don't really give a shit about Mike pens. Yeah, I mean, I know he's a bit of a Dick, but that's all I think. I think, Oh God, he underplayed coronavirus and people died. Like he's part of the problem, I think, but I don't really think about him. Know, whereas because of how exciting and symbolic this partnership is, yeah, and how much it means in sort of the next four years, especially in a pandemic. Yeah, I think there's huge potential for her to step up into a roll that's almost alongside by, yeah, as the president that, like they it is really a partnership there, more than like a above a senior junior, and so I think there's more potential there for her to go further after that term it. I don't know about what Biden will do, though, like I well, I think it's a good sign how involved he had, he made her in the whole campaign, because there was like a lot of involvement. Like she was very involved and very in the public eye. She made the speech with him, and think about how prominent the VP debate was. Exactly. No wants the fly, but this is because, like I've never before, like I've obviously never been a disinvested in an American election, know, but even the VP debate was like huge. She has viral for a lot of things she said in that debate. Like yes, it is massive. So I think it has a lot of weight this time around. Yeah, I also think Joe Biden, and I actually learned a lot about him. This is this episodes know about him, but I learned a lot about in like the leader, because I wanted to read more about him, and there's a really good the daily episode about him, about the amount of times that he ran for the nomination. But I actually think that at this point in his life, he really I'm sure people lots who would disagree, you might even but he is actually doing what we said Hillary's doing. He's running because he was like this can't go on. Like I think that he actually has got the you know, what he thinks is best for America at the front of his mind and I think that it. One example is the fact that he selected Camela, the fact that she is a woman of color, the fact that she doesn't agree with him on anything, on everything, the fact that she would be someone who could be a really good president and he could be getting her, you know, prepared for that for a handover in four years or three. I I wonder, like that does bode well, in my opinion, for to have her up for next time. I mean it's hard, because where do you? I think about opinion, I think but if he's ran so many times the nomination, hmm, is it's still like a well, someone's got to do it because he's obviously been a like everyone knows Joe Biden for this. Yeah, I world really knows him. It's like, obviously, yes, but there's still this ache probably to be president. Like yeah, and going so many times. It's just the perfect opportunity because he's the most pragmatical democratic nomine at the time. Yeah, and the best match for trump. And obviously, in many ways I don't know that much about Bonie Santors. I know that my political leanings aligned more with sanders then Biden in some ways. I think I took like one of those policy tests and I was more left leaning for Sanders. Yeah, but I think that if he was the nominee he would have lost. He definitely would have lost. He was too left. Yeah, I align my political leanings aligned with Bernie Sanders. Yeah,...

...dominantly, not work not actually, not overwhelmingly, but I don't know. The jarring bynt and Sanders. Yeah, and however, when I watch the Darko series, I liked him a bit less. And again it is Hillary propaganda are designed to like him less. But I, yeah, really understood the angle she was coming from when she essentially said, like sanders is a career politician that really didn't do much until he was forty one and he got elected to something. And Yeah, not really someone that does things, he just says things. Yeah, obviously I agree with the policy. For an elderly white dude, incredibly left wing. Yeah, really impressive. Yeah, I just was kind of concerned about how he would get things done and if he could live up to his promises. Honestly, I think the things that I didn't like him in him other things that I don't like in the radical left, which we're actually going to be talking about an upcoming episode, so stay tuned for that. But I think that there were, like you said, a lot of times where he was just like I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, and Hilary, who is a stick of a policy, is like that's not possible. You like, you can't do that, because she's someone who, and this is another reason why I don't think she just was deceptive with the emails, because I just don't think it's it's not her. She would be like, well, it's not allow exactly. She is a and as two real followers, yeah, connect again, I'm not like the most the ultimate Hillary stand if it came to an election and she was resting Don Trub of course I'd vote yeah, but again it depends on who's on the other side of the coin in the seguacially. But again I think the point she outline with Sanders are fears that I held, yeah, and that is that I agree with his policy puts. Agree with what he's trying to do and the ways he's trying to move that country. Yeah, but they're I don't think that there's there's got to be some stepping stones in yet implement the policies that they want to implement. It is just impossible to execute under the sort of government they have what he was to execute exactly. kind of needs someone that the right can swing towards. Yes, exactly, and I think that's the person who is successful, is the person who can make the most people happy. It's just like Malcolm Turnbull in Australia. Like I vote Greens, but do I think that Australia would be in good place if the Greens became the majority tomorrow? No, no, I don't. It would be huge. Yes, going to be an exactly and obviously be impossible for that to happen. Well, let's just say something like the Hillary Trumpet The two thousand and Sixteen election, when this is making a lot of, you know, generalizations and assumptions that are not correct. But if we had a system that allowed a popular vote not to be the vote and the Greens won the election, the country would be a mess. Not as much of a MESSOP as America, but it would be not good. I think it's more like, I think it's hard to est like sort of imagine. Yeah, I think it's hard to imagine what would happen. Yeah, again, I exclusively good vote Greens, but I think that in many ways, and we will talk about us in future, the Greens are aiming for the stars. Yeah, in order to drag labor and liberal slightly to the left. Yes, they're reaching huge heights in their left leanings, some good reason in order to drag some sort of policy, so all policy across by an inch. Yes, and working hard to that is valuable work. I desolutely agree with it. But then a lot of their hard policy that they want to implement if they were in power, I'm like, it's so difficult to do in right this second. Yes, exactly. Again, a lot of it's a construct. I get that. Like money is money. But but, yeah, the current systems we have right now. Yeah, in order for our country to prosper, we need to take the steps to transition. Yeah, appropriately. Well, we can even look at what happens when you know, marriage quality. I think marriage quality it I think, probably more worse, in quotes, in America than what happened in Australia. But the fall that from that. There was a lot of vitriol, hatred for our fellow human beings, a lot of like drama that fell out from that. And just think of and that was what fifty something percent of sixty chips out of the pots, sixty two percent of the vote was yes, and so we had. That's not a reason not to do it. I'll no, no, of course not. But just like for an example like that was quite a majority for a political, you know, yes vote, or whatever you want to call it, sir. They but and even then, even though it was sixty percent pet of people said yes, there was still so much fall out. So imagine, like what could have happened. Yeah, should someone who is so far left start bringing in these policies? That, I just something that hadn't even crossed the minds of so many Australians like it would have just been I means there are certain things where I'm like know, that actually should happen. Now, things a mage quality. I'm like the fall. That's terrible. It's disappointing to see that so many people are so disappointing. Just wrong. Yeah, it's blatantly disgusting that sort of view. The people shouldn't be allowed to marry. Yeah, I want.

But things like climate change, yeah, that should be moving far left quickly. Yes, like that sort of thing. Imperative that that move. Also, it shouldn't meet like climate action shouldn't be political exactly. I'm not talking about that. Wean't yet. Things like that. They're I think there's other policy like when they say things like university should be completely free now. Yeah, I'm like, actually, the system that we've got works quite works quite well. I'm not saying it's perfect. No, it could be made better and given more opportunities to lower middle and lower income households. Yeah, but I think there's a lot of change it needs to happen in terms of the recent changes that have been made with university costs and Teratruy degree costs and how that's been equated at the moment, particularly how it is advantages women who take maternitally. Yes, just just it. Honestly. It just disadvantages poor people who are trying to live, to survive through the degree. Like yeah, Oh, will you have to drop out and wait how long if you failed certain amount of subjects and only people? Or you have to all your hex has canceled and you have to pay. Yeah, only people. Full of that hinders is people who live below the poverty line and content like I couldn't afford to pay for my degree if I failed a few subjects. Yeah, every rich person ever can take a million times. I could. Yeah, just completely ridiculous. But they've structured them. But making it free, like with the same sex marriage rate, is like the perfect point was penny Wong, who's the Labor leader in the Senate, obviously a incredibly prominent Australian politician who is Asian and gay, and she had a problem with the plebiside happening in the first place just because she hated the nature of the conversation in the debate that was occurring and how disrespectful and vitriolic it was. Yeah, towards gay people and members of the LGBC a community and like you're absolutely right, like it's the nature of discussion, how we have discourse about certain issues in this country. It's like the Greens are reaching for the stars in order to like bring some sort of line, yeah, to the major parties, but it's like, at the end of the day it's still so offensive and repulsive the way the conversations had. It is and the one of the reasons that the marriage quality plebisite, was it even a plebisite? It wasn't a referendum. Is a pot side because reference constitution. Yes, one of the reasons why that was so virtually is because Tony Abbott was at the front of it and like headed up the No camp, and that made it so much worse to have somebody so I have goosebumps because I hate him so much. He's so disgusting and he's not even at the leader. Well, I think everyone start on Malcolm and I understand why. Yeah, understand why, because he obviously agree with gay marriage. Was the prime minister the time, liberal leader and he really, really supported getting marriage being legalized in the country. Yeah, this was the only way he could have that's the thing. I think that he would have struggled to get a bill through, because the bill had tried to be passed multiple times before and failed. Yeah, and I think that the plebisite, although it cost a lot, I was worried that the yes vote would come back and it would take a long time, but it didn't even went through swiftly. Yeah, which is great, because the response was overwhelming. To get a set percent majority is like, quite significant, especially the debate that seemed so equal. Yes, it seems like the no vote was so much more prominent and dangerous than it turned out to be. It. Yeah, it did, it definitely did. But it's still horrid if you're a gay person in Australia to know that that many people voted against your basic rights and to even have to go through the whole process, which was penny lost point making people vote. Yeah, exactly. And also a lot of people said, oh, it's just like a ploy to get all the young people to enrollive vote, and the way that it was structured, because it was a postal vote, was kind of like, you know, anti young person. Yeah, so online system? Yeah, exactly, but I also don't think, I mean they don't have any online systems for voting yet. So it's all. They weren't going to whip one out if nowhere. I do think I have a lot of time for Malcolm Turnbull, even though he is right and all again this episode it's not about him, but I think that that was the only way that he could have gotten it done, was to have like the voice of the Australian people behind him. But I did the conversation didn't need to be so bad. And Tony ever got a platform at every single turn, particular because his sister headed up the Yes camp, yes, which was a lot sorts of things. I don't know what an adjective to describe it, but that was a mess. Tony over it's such a spider, he's a cockroach because he never dies, it's true. Does matter how much she's great. The poor Julia who took up against him. I was reading a big fan of Julia, but I was, I remembered about there some things I disagree with her. I mean part of it is the same sex marriage debate. Obviously she's an unmarried atheist woman.

Child has got her MMM whoo. But I remember when she yeah, we talked about this, I think recently, but when she released her new books. She went on Qa and part of what was she was saying, like I didn't really sort of front the same sex marriage debate and like take a stance and and push it, because she's like I just hate the way that we value marriage and society. Yeah, I feel you. Yeah, but again, it's not really your place to decide whether someone should get married or not because you don't want to. Yeah, but I also agree that when she was in leadership we weren't ready as a country. Yeah, I don't think the yes that would have come through. It would have been harder to push that bill through if we got a not. Yeah, we weren't ready to conservers will not ready. Yeah, I think actually the last ten years has done more than we think in terms of moving left. Yeah, I think so too. Um, also, imagine what would have happened if that vote came back no, like we would have been pushed back so far, which is a sad reality. is so sad. But it's like I also was reading up and I forgot about like the Pacific solution that she basically brought back in the sort of deportation of us am se because to not ruin Christmas Island. Right. So I'm that kind of stopped for a period and was on hold and then she brought it back in and then I read this whole article on her saying that when that happened, like she thought was like a human rights, humanitarian decision, because people were in the water drowning, and so she moved them somewhere because she had no choice, and it's like, well, you could have moved them here. I just thought it was a little bit Tony. Abbots stir up the birds. Yeah, it was an odd obviously, again, every politician has to tow the party line at some point. Yeah, way, but that's huge cost doing the person that she is, in the stance that she usually takes as a Labor leader. Yeah, it surprised me because I forgot about that and then when I was reading and I thought, are you actually did reinstate one of the most traumatizing aspects? Yeah, Sustralian Law. Yeah, yeah, and I think the I mean I think the one important lesson I've learned, like every year that I've gotten older, is that, like, people aren't all good like she did. I think Julie did a lot for women in politics. I think that she, I don't know. I kind of want to say that she did make a lot of mistakes in my eyes, not necessarily in everyone's eyes, but like that is one of them. But I also don't think she was truly given the platform to lead on her own. Yeah, like she always had someone whi. Spring in her ear, which was always going to happen for the first woman, unfortunately, and you know, thank you to her for doing that, because I hope the next woman is is given a little bit more freedom and autonomy over her own, you know, policies. I mean that's me. I shouldn't assume that Julie Gillard regrets that policy, because she's never said that she does. But but there are a lot of times where you could kind of see like, oh, someone's told her to do that, yeah, and she's doing it. If you found us just totally a relatable at work, come back next Wednesday for a new episode. Until then, head to cheek, Mediacom Dodd a you to tie you over until then. By Good Day,.

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