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The Weekly Cheek
The Weekly Cheek

Episode · 6 months ago

65. What's a white woman's place in feminism?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, we talk about a white woman's place in feminism, the importance of intersectionality, and how to educate yourself on being a better ally.

Find us online at cheekmedia.com.au and on socials @cheekmediaco

Hello, I'm Christ and Parison Otto and I'm hard a ferguson, and where co founders at Cheek mediac this is the weekly Cheek podcast. Cool, okay. So what I'm going to say is I'm going to stop being so fucking problematic and everyone be nude if they want to be. Just because you're a white woman doesn't mean you to do whatever the fuck you want. Before we set the PODCAST, I would like to acknowledge that we are on stolen lands of the Yager and terrible people, and I again would like to shout out the earlier a second from the heart. I'm wearing the shirt today. Can See if you're watching the video, you can actually buy these shirts anymore. But they did a colab with the iconic, so you can buy the shirt without the voice treaty truth on the top. I might buy one a the iconic. Yeah, thirty bucks of the ore. That's really good. Okay, cool. Yeah, and like they partnered. It's not like the iconic rip just. Yeah, that's that was my other question. Cool, exactly. So get on to that. Welcome back to the weekly cheek. Welcome. I just feel like I need to acknowledge my ear Oh fuck, I don't know why I feel imagine it was just that, look at it, beautiful. You just do it is drawing it and you're just nothing wrong with it. One of my ears is blocked, so if my volume is a bit weird, that's why it's not. He's actually not weird at all. I will like because if it gets weird I will be like you're being weird. Okay, thank you, but it's funny because Christen's ear has been blocked all week and we went to Sydney, we came back, maybe to do with the flight. Was a bit before we were even left, wasn't it? Yeah, but I fucked it up. Or back to the point where I, like Chris, has very good hearing and yes, we were walking to an event and on the way I was on Christmas Baddie aside and I said, so, where is the Hilton Hotel? Anyway? And then shoes, like anyway, I just been thinking about Loo's really annoying, and then I was like Oh, and so I audibly said, Oh, you didn't hear me, and then enduring a gap, and then Chris and just continued on a tangent about you. That's really weird, and I was like fucking...

...know like you're. You're just a very like, I think pother reason I can see a friend. It's been much asn't yeah, barely, that you're very aware all the time, like you are. I like people who are very type A, yes, but very similar in the way that it's like I don't like to be, yeah, unaware, or I'm just of my surroundings or who was speaking with or Bolba. So it's really odd. It's disturbing to be walking around in the world with you, where you're just like, get on this side, because I got one nothing like you got. Get a murdered. You wouldn't know about it until it's too late. That's why I keep telling people, because I'm like, I'm not being rude, like I genuinely cannot fucking hear a thing you're saying. Anyway, few I'm so glad that's out in the open. I mean a few weeks ago it was Thrush, so I didn't think the ear is going to be as big of a deal. I don't know what bothers me more. I think the ear is worse. I think it's because it's knee your head. Yea, on your heads, would say, on there so I think that, like the Thrush, can potentially be ignored, if angry the ITCH, you know, the vibes down to bea you can never be ignored. So in this episode we are talking about the place of the white woman in Feminism and I love that we're deciding that on our podcast, in our own platforms. To Whi we were going to discuss our role. But I think, but I thought out what you should be doing. I think that we shouldn't be putting on other people. I think that it's unfair to to start, I think a really good place to start this discussion is that last weekend, I know we posted about it incessantly, but we went to Sydney and there was an event and all about women, like festival or conference or whatever the fuck you want to call it, at the Opera House. So we went down to Sydney. I bought US tickets for Christmas as a fun thing to do, and we went to five different sessions. It was excellent. Would recommend going those to you if they run it. And one of the features of most sessions was that there was a slideo which you could send questions into and then they would ask the palace at the end of the session. Yeah, and so what I found was we went to one of the first sessions we went...

...to was first nations women look to the future. Another one we went to is after consent. Went to talk with rock sand gay. Those are three of them, and what we found was that during these sessions where women of Color and first nations women were being asked questions, what predominantly came up was like well, what should white women be doing to set help? It's like, what should I do as a privileged person? First off, you shouldn't be asking him. Yeah, tell you exactly. That is like it really hurt myself because I was a bit like, they're not with us. Yes, they're not with us. We would never, I would literally never ask you. That's big pick me energy. It's in a good way, but no. But it's like, I have a deep problem with the fact that we're in two thousand and twenty two and we're hardcore firminists and I think that we're trying. I think that we know every day I probably fail at being in sexual in some way, minor or major. There's probably something failing. Like, I know there's a long way to go, right, yeah, but something that I think about a lot is. Well, I don't ever want to put the onus or the responsibility on a woman of color or someone who's in a minority group to explain to me what I should be doing. Yeah, if you can't fucking open Google and ask your own questions and find answers yourself, like, I don't think people realize how much energy education takes. Yeah, Flex Mommy's a really good example of someone who who's obviously a woman of color and she calls it a lot of the time. Yeah, it's just like no, I'm not your search engine. No, like I don't owe you anything. Yeah, and I think that, like I think. I mean, I'm sure a lot of people see that and they're just like what, like that's I feel like they maybe feel like it's a personal attack. Yeah, and I do have empathy for that. However, however, there is so much like our audience is tiny compared to flexes. Yeah, and and there's two of us. Yeah, is one of her? I don't know. I know she was like hiring someone. I think, like I know that she's a team in the fact, in terms of her one of her stuff business partner friends, Manna, just like like her subscriptions...

...and her email and things like that. Yeah, but I think that on her instagram is mainly her. Yeah, I mean, and I really think what she does a fantastic and I think it's because people feel often that they're being shamed if they're being told. Like someone asks a question, and a lot of the questions will be like where did you buy this item from, the you're wearing or your furniture, and I can kind of in a way, I understand that more because they want to direct answer out where it's from. But also, like the stink sheet that I remember one distinctly. She's this like stool, that's a corn cob, hmm, and someone was like aware and it's like it's really about hard to google stool corn cob, because it's not like you're gonna get lost in them, like you know, like it's not that. That's the thing. I think is like a supply. It is not that hard. Like how many times between you K to twelve and you need did we learn how to fucking research? Just turn around and put it on an influence, I think. But she working of color exactly, and I think that these are quite like very small examples, but of people asking stuff that they could find out for themselves. It's like how many bruises are take to build a fucking castle? Yeah, exactly, but then, like, I think it's just it's the same idea, like someone asks you where you got something when they could google it. Yeah, and then that just kind of ramps up to asking, you know, people of colors and like how can I be a good ally? How do I become more intersectional? Shall we do the scenario? It's Nice, please, is it? I would love to. Okay, so I wrote an article on International Women's Day. I was posted the day after about like it was called a note to the white women of Australia, and I think that, I mean, I obviously didn't come up with this idea, but I think that the last two iwd's I have seen more content talking about like how well, how iwd lacks intersectionality, basically, and we're I'm not going to go into the full history because I think a lot of people do already know, but it actually started as like a working women's Day. Yeah, like it was never supposed to be. It was never celebrate women. That is not awd like.

It used to be a day that we would take to the streets and be like this is not fucking good enough and we are going to be yelling about it. It's not like Yay women, like that's not what it was ever going to be and that is so exclusionary of so many women. I don't think see agree. I know what the purpose of it is and I would know what I would prefer to be doing on IWD, which is taking to the streets. Yeah, I don't think there's a problem with celebrating women. Well, I don't mean like specific, I don't mean like we can't celebrate women. What I mean is like the corporates grabbing hold of it and being like, Yay, I have three lovely women in my team and they are incredible in the business would be dead without this. Seventy five men would not know what to do without these three women that we pay FIFTYZERO dollars. Are you competed, Tom So? I just like anyway whatever. I wrote about this in two different articles anyways, and the thing that I was focusing on about in the article that was the note to the white women of Australia, is that we are sorry. First of all, I know it's really frustrating to see leaders of our country and really powerful men not doing shit for women. I know it sucks. It makes me Ango every day, but we we are better than that and we don't have to be part of that problem. But you can become part of that problem. Like I think Christine Holgate is the epitome of this, because look the stuff that happened to her. Not Great she I mean I think you can. I think you can have it both ways. I think you can say the way that she was treated was appalling. Yeah, of course right, but she's fucking gets paid so much fucking money. Is that your whole argument? She is a very rich woman in a powerful position and I just don't think that a lot of young women, even privilege young women, but then a particularly diverse and intersectional...

...women related to any fucking thing she was talking about when it was going through. I think she's the epitome of girl boss Feminism. Yeah, I mean, if it's feminism, it's kind of like the jolly bishop scenario to me, where you can pick and choose when it suits you exactly. I don't necessarily have a problem with her being in a CEO because I think, like, if we're going to start treading people for that, like way we should be going from Ben before you go for Oh, yeah, of course, but I get your point. I I get upset, or not upset. I'm just like fuck off, when I see the video. I think there was a the respect safety equity or this new campaign. Yeah, seeing Christ in holgate among these other women was just like that's not the same thing. Yeah, exactly. Again, something awful happened to you. That happens to most women in the workplace in the different sessionally. Yeah, but I think the hard thing is it Christ in Hoggate was put in that video at the expense of others who were done so much more. Yeah, and I think that we choose these rich white women like Christine Holgate to be the post to girl for the movement, when someone like Danir money is and included at all. Yeah, exact. And that's what that's what tears me up inside of being is like, I'm not necessarily against Christine Holgate. Maybe I'm not her sup I'm not a support, I'm not her audience, but I just think that is a wasted opportunity, yeah, to provide prominence to someone who has something more important to say. Yeah, and he represents a diverse group of people. Yes, and my problem mostly was with the way that the media reacted to her because, like, at the end of the day, like it happened to her. She was the one in like having to face up in the Senate inquiry. Obviously it was going to be heard. Happened to her. I'm not saying like you should have given up a paying the inquiry, you know, but like the way that the media and I think again, like I think she's quite she's someone who, you know, someone of our mum's age might think like wow, but just not for us. And again yet not. I don't really I don't have any personal against obviously,...

...but the way that the media was, like, and then she showed up in suffragette what and she and I'm just like, what the fuck, that's right, going against like it's not self reject why? How much? How much was that fucking suit? But I think that's unfair, because it's not her saying that. No, but that's what I'm saying. Yeah, it might plays with the reaction to its, not so much with her because again, like it happened to her, and that's it. Like we're going to talk about the perfect victim in another in another episode. But I just think this like the reaction to something like that. It's like, yes, it happened to you, and just because you're white and rich, it doesn't mean that it was an he doesn't bad. Yeah, exactly, but the reaction to it, I think the media was kind of like what a moment, but I'm just like, was it at? That's what's confusing, because I do think that plays into the perfect victim complex. Yeah, we're going to talk about but yeah, I think it's hard because again, it's like I feel like I'm having a shot at her, even I'm having a shot at the people in the response. Exactly. It's like, literally, what's happened here is their media of found a controversial position to take, to play her as this perfect victim, suffragette, white, all this shit, and I think the thing is it's as like, is it because she's palatable to the public as a feminist? Yeah, exactly. It's like Julie Bishop. Now she gets to be that person because we've decided it's okay for her to be the fucking post to go. It's not. No, it's not all right. So go back and listen and breathe. Article. And I think that these scenarios again, like, obviously I said this all the time. I'm not saying that I'm like the greatest intersectional feminist ever to live, but I personally do think that it is actually quite easy to figure out for yourself how to be a better allied to women of color so that you don't become part of the problem. And I think that the first thing. I also talked about this in the article. I would like a to highlight it because I think it is very smart not to brag about like the idea of acknowledging a...

...privilege, like everyone's talking about. We have you. We have to acknowledge a privilege. We have to acknowledge a privilege, we have to go one step further than acknowledging it, because I think, and again right this on the article, acknowledging your privilege, I think, and from what I have seen, often times just results in feeling bad and guilty and like you are embarrassed and you should pull and like you should pull away from moving me, like my voice can't be hop because I am a white woman. I have lots of privilege and I'm just going to like fuck off and beside like there are scenarios where you should do that. Yes, well, I think they're instead of be you don't have to be the voice, but there are other things you can do and the movement exactly, and I think that a really good point was made and I felt, Oh, I've never liked I wish we talked about this more. Was In this after concerned talk that we went to. It was with brially amy, Tunic, Saxon mullins and it was hosted by Lucia Osborne Cowley, and essentially they were talking about their role in the movement as educators. And this is about, you know, can changing consent laws, affirmative consent being introduced in New South Wales, you know, age appropriate consent being mandated and nationally in the curriculum, all these sorts of things. And one of the things Brey said, which I thought this isn't talked about enough, is she said a lot of people will message activists in the space and say, like, what can I be doing? I want to start a platform, I wanted to this and say I would have started on this. I'm going to say exactly, and it's like people have been doing the work for years. They don't need a new organization. They need volunteers at the back and I think that and and and, to be honest, the thing I was thinking during that was, oh my fucking God, I started a immediate company when there's other met companies and existence, and I was like trying to examine that was, I think, the point, and I think that does apply in some ways. We, I mean to be honest, when we started cheets because we didn't see anyone doing this specifically in the in the area. There was a gap for us and mad caution, but fun. Maybe there's not a gap anymore. Maybe not just because we're here. No, because I think that's because we're so big and we filled...

...it. So there is that. There is a there is an argument there that, yeah, we've just we're just taken up space, and I agree with that. I probably overthink it more than people, I'd like to admit. But the thing I think is I think that we gravitate towards the microphone. HMM, literally right now. So this is ironic and I understand being a hypocrite, but I think that when we are looking for a specific cause to campaign or advocate for, we want to be the shiny new toy yeah, and I think one of the things that they were really excellently pointing out was you might see, you know, their follow account or then speaking at, you know, National Press Club or bubble, and it's like it's not like that. Yeah, like, how much do you sacrifice and give up to be in those positions? And it's you. You don't need to be that person. You can be in a t shirt and jeans at the back, you know, making shirts, sending out flyers, cooking the meal afterwards, like you can be doing those things and that's so worthy and important. It's not just about being at the front. Yeah, exactly, so true, Queen. All right, scenrio into the scenarios. So you're just getting into feminism. Sorry, you have been a feminist for a while, but you're just saying to hear about intersectional feminism. The idea is completely new to you and you're keen to learn more. How do you go about it? Honestly, I'd probably try to think, because it probably was a stage. MMM, when I started uni, I wanted to be way more engaged than I was, like I felt like I was just an instagram activist of the time. They would share a few in protographics so I applied to volunteer with an organization that it's like a feminist project. That that's how I met you, I remember. Yes, thank you, in case you didn't know. I also think, I think there was one Christmas or birthday were I asked like five books because I didn't know. I just have the money. That's I'm debate, like five books, but I wanted them, so I like asked my mom and just for a book, utches and things like. I...

...go out and buy books on intersectional feminism. I listened to podcasts, I google. I think that the key is finding what's already out there, because the resourcing that's already there means that you literally should never have to ask someone in real time. Yeah, unless it's like an issue that's emerging and you have no idea, but then again you don't. The other thing, I think is that people make and make and make and make so much content and teach so many things on so many platforms, and to individually feel and the word is entitled to their time in a personally in box to me is like what planet are you want? Yeah, I agree, this is not about us. Again, I'm happy to receive the messages where not that big of a platform. I like what we do. I was even think to think that it's just been relations, but it's like when I if I was to message flex mammy, it's like she absolutely has that content out there. Yeah, I do not need her to personally go arms going to reply to Hannah Ferguson. That's fucking absurd. Like she's interested in becoming intersectional and be again, to be honest, I think this is I think maybe three years ago, I message Clementine Ford a question, okay, and she answered hmm, and now look like a that I'm like what a dumb fuck I was. How dare I? I was asking her. I was, I think I message her like thank you so much for its content, though, of then she applied. I was like, you know, responding to that, and I said sort of something to the effect of how do you like, how do you regulate the emotion you feel when there's so much to be angry about? MMM, I think it was obviously a personal question based on the stories at the time. Yeah, looking back on and I'm like she talks about this in Rightson and all the time. Like why do I feel the need to message her that? And I'm like fuck off, Hannah, go away. But I think it's one of those things is like the content exists, you're not looking. Yeah, and you want to have I think a lot of it is you want to have a personal conversation and a personal connection with this person, and that's not fair on them because they don't know you.

Yeah, parasocial relationships are very strange and should be looked at more closely. Well, interesting you said that, because this is the final scenario. You Are you? Obviously you're a white woman. Yeah, you have a friend person of color. You're both feminists and progressive politically and talk about it a lot. How do you remain cognizant of the added layer that race, you know, poses or like provides the context when having conversations about politics and social issues with your friend? How, sorry, how to remain cognizant? Yeah, yeah, like, how how do you go about it? I guess just being aware of those things. MMM, well, I think there's a lot of times I'm probably not very aware of it. Think I'm trying to be better. I think that I think all the unfortunate things that a lot of white women, and myself included, have done. Do Do do? Is that we analyze the person way talking to to provide a safety net for what we can and can't ser yeah, yeah, I think that some people have to. They read the room and make jokes accordingly, and I think that that's a very hypersocial in a way of problematic, because you're measuring what you can get away with on the basis of who you're talking to. M So I know that I have some problematic views. Not About race, HMM, not about sex, not about gender. I think I have problematic views about I'm not going to share them. Suppose like are going sometimes, but I think for you it's more like, like we all have like things that whether it's like must done packs, but it's just not done. It's exactly like when we talk about when we like about the questions it like, what's your anti feminist view like that? What's the thing that you struggle with? Yeah, I think everyone has that thing right, and one of the things that I have is like, I think one of the great things we have is, like we don't like Laundrey, but it's not problematic to people. But like, yeah, neither of us like that stuff, and it's not like I'm shaming people for it, but yeah, I thin we're not on the we're not on the page of like empower and like reclaim launderie. Yeah,...

I'm also not. I'm not very comfortable with nudity. Oh, yeah, that's very, extremely uncomfortable. I would say thank you for that. Right his will had wrote the way sound really mean. Yeah, I did good. Keep that in funny, keep that in fucking problematic. Far Shaming me most totals. But sorry. Back to the point. I think that when I'm say talking to you, you know that I have an extreme problem with nudity, because I tell you said it. Yeah, and I've obviously not' sid on the PODCAST, so I'm going to telling a lot of people. Few episodes go to yes, but what I mean is I think that in circumstances where you know someone loves nudity or is nude, I wouldn't be like, I fuck like you don't do that. You are constantly measuring what you can say and not say to remain likable in that scenario. Yeah, and I think a lot of us in those scenarios will be sitting there and thinking, oh well, I can't make this joke or say this thing or do this thing or think this thing, because I'm in this group right and I think that also when we're around certain people, we accept a standard that we wouldn't allow for our self. If some men in a bar or at a party's makes a joke, I don't honestly no handover heart that I could go up to them and say that that was fucked. Yeah, because I'm not there yet and I wish I was. And it's one of the things rock sang gay said, was like, when we talk about what you should be doing, the first thing you should be doing is fucking fixing your racist family members. You're right. All I always make memes about them, but I really should be yet ringing them to yell at them. I thought. I think more more. The point is like, don't like you don't have to get into the comments and I go at it with some random person. No, but I get the point is that I do bash myself up for for that a bit, like I for lacking that strength. Yeah, because I think again, it's like very easy for me to get on this podcast and be like Oh, miss and I'm that and I have these views, but then, in the context of people that don't think like us, I I'm scared yeah, I do get scared. I do get very anxious about calling people out. I struggle with it. I'm not good at it and...

I want to be better at it. But I think that this is a long winded response to the scenario, but I think that it's one of the things that I think I want to be more commission of is what I'm answering a question when I'm in the specific environment, trying to apply my values in exactly the same way and not cutting up my personality pie based on who I'm with. HMM. I want to be better at holding the same level of accountability to everyone instead of, like, being leanient on a friend or letting a joke slide or this and this and this. I think that when we talk with radical people, were much more careful. Yeah, and we're much more measured in what we say and how we think, and I want to apply that to more snoze, because that's the person I want to be a yeah, ideally you would not be saying like, I'm not going to say this because that persons are like. I think like and, but sorry, and I don't want to clarify. Saw It interrupt. When I say like, it probably sounds very problemical. I'm like, I don't make this joke. What I mean is, I'm not saying I make racist jokes. Yeah, what I'm saying is sometimes I don't share how left wing I am. Yeah, so other way around. Yeah, well, I think I find like sometimes I wonder, especially because, like on this podcast, I'm like the more aggressive one. I often wonder, like how many people around me don't say stuff because I'm there, yes, because they think I'm going to pop off, which honestly, like I actually don't do, because I'm kind of the same as you. Like, to be quite honest, I am so much more likely to like have a go at someone I don't like in a scenario or yeah, like so much more likely. I probably I don't often call out my friends, but I do wonder how many people wouldn't say something because I'm around. And if that came back to me and if I heard that from like a third party, I'd be like that person's can't it's like, to be honest, I just be like that is a huge red flag, like the idea of people. And I actually spoke to a woman...

...who is aboriginal by light skin, and she told me that sometimes people say race, a shit about aboriginal people to have face because she they think she's white. God, I'm like that is just so fucked up and like she handled it so well, like she's very I don't know how she remains so calm in these situations, but she says Oh, usually I just like tell him I actually I'm aboriginal and like actually like an educate. Some I'm like, wow, you are so powerful, like I think I would just like load. You've reached the beach of humanity. Yeah, but like that's you know, I just you should never if you have a views that you wouldn't say around certain people, then you should really examine them. That's the thing. I think that often, like a lot of people in my life followed cheek, and I know that a lot of those people don't. Like my parents, follow cheek and I don't think they've ever voted for anyone other than the Liberal Party before, but they follow yeah, and they listen, and I mean that's an easy example, is my parents, because probably the most polarizing example in a way too. But I know a lot of my friends must look at some of the Shit and go, oh, that's just ridiculous. HMM but they don't ever say to me, but I know those conversations of probably happened. Yeah, whether just like that's insane what she's saying. Yeah, I mean, but I've been I think we've all been there, like anyone who's progressive has. Like there's been increments where you've been like Whoa, that's a bit too far. Yeah, and then like here I am, one year later, being like so far enough. Absolutely, and I think that the key is to the way I've tried and trying to frame it for myself is like, well, they're following. Yeah, and if they really didn't like it, that don't followed on for it, but maybe over time it desensitizes and breaks them into that. That's yeah, thinking makes it seem normal, indoctrinates, dctrinating for okay. So what I'm going to say is I'm going to stop being so fucking problematic and everyone be new if they want to be. Well, I think like, and the point I was trying to make with the scenarios is not like it's so easy for us to...

...sit here and be like this is what I would do in the situation. Obviously, like, hopefully it's obvious that that's not what we're saying. It's kind of like this is probably the aspirational for us. It's like this is what I would if I'm if I'm thinking right now like it is. I know it is hard to get all the stuff in your brain all the time. Not that I'm apologized like giving anyone a, including myself, a pass, because we do need to try, but it is hard to like make sure it well okay. I think it is hard to consider the fact that maybe you're part of the problem. I understand that's challenging, very hard for me, yes, particularly, I think, for White Women, because we've been told like up until a lot of people still even now, but like for me personally, up until a couple of years ago, like you're, you know, largely a victim of a patriarchal system, and that is correct. However, there are lots of things that privileged people can do to oppress like people who have things in common with them, like there are lots of things that white women can do that oppresses women of color and like. Can Be you know, we're talking about race in this episode, but it can be put across like ed any type of intersection really, and I think that it is like just because you're a white woman doesn't mean because to do whatever fuck you want. Absolutely. I also think, because it made me think when you were talking about the panel scenario and you said like I don't know if I would do that, I think that it's there's a I think that to me, it's because there is now a social expectation that women in on these panels will are those questions. Yeah, I think that's a growing movement very fast. Like I think now that if you're on a panel it's all white, you are like that is the definition what we're talking about on IWD. Yeah, that's like a very clear problem that's easily identifiable. I think something like what do you let go with your friends and what ye AC Sept? It's not as heavily policed. MMM, because it happens in like insidious...

...and private environments. And I don't know what said. Yes, and I think that we just guilt ourselves privately. Yeah, I think it's a very private experience. I think I might be one of the key differences is like what we're what, where we're shifting and how fast. Yes, and I other think I mean white guilt. I feel like is, I guess not really that talked about in a lot of spaces, because I think it's something that it's against, like something you kind of sit with personally, and I think that, I mean honestly. I think it's quite natural to feel that way, but I just think that, like we should really try to avoid that, you know, feeling any feeling of guilt over a privilege, avoid letting that allow us to retreat and be like well, I'm just going to be invisible then, yeah, and actually just think about like, if I have money, where can I don't know if I have time, where can I volunteer? I'm passionate about x issue, how can I like go and lend a hand in a way that like suits my privileges, whether that is because you have money, because you have time, etc. Etc. Like, I think that there are lots of ways to get involved with the cause without having, like we said earlier, to be the star. Don't have to be the star, and there are also ways that there are places where you can use your voice to elevate someone else's voice. If you didn't find us a completely insufferable come back next Wednesday for a new episode. Could also find this on instagram at cheek media. Co or online, Cheek Mediacom donate you yes, but thought that's go one.

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