The Weekly Cheek
The Weekly Cheek

Episode · 1 year ago

5. Just one expensive day and a tonne of entrapment?


In this epsiode we talk about marriage! We aren't married, we may never be, but that won't stop us from having opinions about it.

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Hello, I'm Christen Parison Otto and I'm Han a Ferguson, and where co founders of cheek media go. This is the week the cheek podcast. What is it besides one expensive day and ton of entrapment? That's that's run. I didn't say anything to them, but if I told my mom that she would be horrified. Chances I'm not going to make it to the end. Sorry, but marriage, marriage, marriage. So you're a no, I'm a probably not all that's different. What's like? What would it take? My boyfriend really wanting to get married? Yeah, I think I'm the same, which he doesn't. So when does I know my condoles? To be fair, about twelve months ago, if you'd said like a getting might be like yeah, are MMM. And then it's been the last six months. I think we had to talk about this and I was like yeah, pretty well. Yeah, I think of the last six months I've really kind of come to this conclusion where I'm like, what is it besides one expensive day and tone of entrapment? That's that's right. Well, I think there's a difference between a marriage and a wedding and wanting a marriage V a wedding. I think everyone wants a wedding, but I think I don't. Marriage is pay. But I get what you mean. I think it's a peer pressure marriage or wedding both. Yeah, because I think that people, I mean I actually want to respect people who all open do those sorts of things. My mom would kill me if I loped and she's told me that to my face. She's told me it's it's rude and bad man best, illegal, illegal. I don't think it's rude to I actually really have a lot of respect for people who do those things, because I think it's quite a nice, genuine reflection of their relationship that they like what it's just about you and I, which is, in yeah, my selfish, because but it proves how much of a wedding is about other people exactly. And that's actually what my mum thinks. Basically, she's like, the wedding is not just for you, it's for like your families, because it's like the pretty much the only time you can invite all of your family and all of your friends and expect them all to be there together. Right, I gotta. I get it. From a family standpoint, that's like, why would you leave us out of one of the most important moments of your life, but that's because people frame it as one of the most important moments of your life. Yeah, I'll tell you what I would do. Go on, and I don't think this would upset my mum, who knows, though she can let me know, email me, and it's to just go down to the like literally go to the Court House sign the papers. Yeah, because that's not eloping, because it's like I feel like eloping kind of is like, well, we wanted to like get away and just do it for us as a secret, but going down to the court house is like we wanted to be married to each other and we like got it done by moving back on with our lives kind of things. So I would probably do that if there was some kind of like, you know, tax benefit or similar that I wanted. This is the thing, is that I think my biggest qualm about the idea of marriage is that it's weird that everyone's obsessed with a religious sacrament. Yeah, that is weird actually, because no one that I know is religious. Now, yeah, I mean in a Christian, Catholic or denominational sense, like I don't know anyone in my life that's genuinely like goes to church on Sunday, or so I probably would probably wouldn't be in my life. Yeah, I mean sorry, grandma shout out yes every Sunday, but I wouldn't not go with her. Yeah, I went to church, you know, every Sunday for years as a child. MMM, she you could not get me back in a church now. Yeah, neither. But it's odd because I think the majority of people to get married have don't go to church, don't like those things. And I know you can get married with a celebrant. My mum is a celebrant. I'm sorry for you're listening to this mom. MOM loves love. Yeah, mom loves the good wedding. Oh, it's so fun. But the thing for me is, like I get that it's more that. I get that it's more than a religious sacrament, but at core level, what we are celebrating and making a huge element of our lives probably one of the most definitive things. And really what it's saying is it's like a it's a symbol of prestige of your relationship. I think. Yeah, I think it's like symbolized as like you're taking it seriously. Yeah, for your life. Yeah, and I think that's what's embarrassing. Is, like it's a church thing and base, and I get that it's more than that and it's symbolic and it's a commitment. It's a beautiful thing in some ways, but in others I'm like, actually, chances are not going to make it to the endswer. Sorry, I was learning how long it would be. Odds are until we got to the I know I'm stuff for a lot of concepts of stuff, but I have a big problem with the fact that, like, it's constantly questions. After you've been together for like a couple of years. It's like, well, when? Yeah, if it's when, and that's odd. It is pretty odd. It is weird.

How many? How many people are interested in the status of your relationship because it seemed as like not being legitimate? Yeah, it is something legitimizes. It's also quite socially isolating. You never thought about the fact that when you get married, your immediate family becomes that person, not really like obviously you consider your parents still needs to be your immediate family, but once you get married, it's like your immediate family is them and then the children you are also expected by society to have. Like it's just changes the concept. MMM. Are This really interesting article the other day about this and it was saying that twenty years ago, because, you know, like maslow's hierarchy of need. Yeah, I'm saying twenty years ago, like when you ask people like what marriage was supposed to give them, was quite a base level of like support, cooperation. MM. But now, when people asked like what does marriage give you, it's actually a much higher I think it's the top, like the top part of the pyramid, like Oh really, it's actually like autonomy, like thought. But but it's all these things like emotional support. But well, blah, what that like? Reaches Self actualization. So it's saying that. Like I think the point of the article and that sort of pinpoint is marriage is gone from being something where it's like you're part of a community and you're married, to be like you're getting all this social all of your social needs from this one person, and so you eventually like isolate yourself from your community. Interesting, and I kind of get that, because I feel like the concept of a wedding used to be more about the community and like everyone comes and it's like a day of celebration, but now it is as much as we're talking about like a loping versus like you need to be community and have everyone there. It's kind of more like what am I going to wear and like yeah, a very Mimimi, what I want to my special day. It's a birthday for both of you. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. So it's kind of gone through being this like community thing, of like this sort of sacrament, and it would have been more of religious acrament a few decades ago, oven to being like this person's going to provide for me with everything and like they're my them, the half to my whole. I fucking hate that sentiment. By it may. Yeah, me too, but I think it's kind of changed in scope for what you're expected to get from this person, and I think that's probably part of the reason you had this like pressure and crumbling of a lot of relationships to hmm, because I think it's supposed to like. I think now we expect to get so much more from this person, which is wrong. Yeah, interesting, HMM, we bad just don't really relate to any of that. I don't either, but I thought it was a really interesting thing when I think about couples that I know that eventually get more and more isolated together and, yeah, find themselves with less and less sort of close connections, even with their families, and I think it's because there is certain isolating elements to that sort of level of commitment and expectation. Yeah, person but that's also where it becomes toxic. Interesting because I think also my extended family are all pretty close. So for me, like, I haven't seen that happen in my family. I don't know, just not really like that. And the other thing is I feel like, and this is probably more likely because I'm most likely not going to get married, is that when like nick and I moved in together, that was a bit of I guess that's like the milestone. Yes, and it's just like okay, cool, that's like what we're doing now. Yeah, but nothing really changed in my like with my friendships or anything like that. I kind of we kind of just like went on without individual lives, but we like happen to live together. Yeah, no, but I agree. That's what I'd call a healthy relationship. What I'm saying is, if you don't mean no, no, I fallly know what train. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, type of like once you move in together, like and it is hard. I think you're now a unit. You are a unit. Yeah, and I think that's the IT goes. You move in together and I can't even imagine the Times where you get you moved in together after you got married. What a fucking Oh my God, guys, there would be so many surprises to live for summer before. Yeah, you do my base beliefs. Oh Yeah, for sure. And even just like, I don't know, like the smallest things that you could never know, because even if you're staying with each other every night of the week, it's not the same as living together, because it's not. It's always one person's house. Yeah, not kind of house. Like you don't change that much, but you're still conscious of the fact that you're MMM, you're a guest at some level. Exactly. Also, it's just like when you are visiting and staying over at your partner's place or them at your place, it's kind of like, Oh, this is our together time, because we're, you know, over at someone's house, but when you're at when you live together at the same place, you have like you're together time and you're down time and your work time and your Uni Time and all your times together. Yes, so it's like nothing like. I think it changes for being like I have to go out of my way to see you and maybe yes effort, to being like Oh my God, you're here whenever I want to be...

...alone. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's just like you go from like having to make a certain effort to it's like going out to see a friend or going on holider. You're like packing and caring and making time for yeah, and then it's like all the down time. Yeah, it completely changes that, IAMIC, I think. Yeah, for sure, for us it may it was better because we don't really like to go places. Like last night nick was like, Oh, do you maybe we should go? He just woke up from his nap and he was like let's go for dinner tonight, and I was like, Oh, that's nice that he wants to spend time with me. He's just like yeah, I think we should like make an effort, not go on too on a date, and then we like looked a few places and what it's like, but then we have to go somewhere and we already have somewhere, which is our house that we share. So that was having me a lot of money if I could have that mentality. Yeah, because it's just like, I don't know. Also, we're both this have kind of the same attitude to socializing, which is great, but it's like downtime, you know, being with each other without like interacting. Yeah, I guess a similar social battery is a really good to a simil little beato in are like yeah, that is like having the same approach. Like I would find it really tough dating someone who wanted to live to party early or like I'm a massive extropert and he still like, can we stay a little longer? And I'm like, I would rather die than stay a little longer. I'd rather die than go to but also, but like usually if that happens I'll be like, well, it really happens. But usually if that happened, like one way or the other, it would be like, well, one of us will go and the other person will stay home, which is fine, and I think, especially now that we live together, it's like well, I'll see you later when you arrive back on the thing that annoys me about marriage is so I went for context. I like was religious in at the end of school. I could be enough times in, I guess, like yeah, maybe eleven, twelve and then two years out, of school until I moved out of my hometown and when I was like in a twelve, I was of the mindset of like, oh well, I'll most likely get married at nineteen years old. You're kidding, because that's when everyone around me was getting married. God, yeah, it's Um. You genuinely thought that. I genuinely thought that. I was like, well, that's seems to be the time. What did your parents say? I didn't say anything to them, but if I told my mom that, she would have been horrified. How did you know? Knowing that, you knew should be horrified at the time. No, I didn't know. You just don't that now. I know that now because she wouldn't have said anything, but this is like a secret fear that she held. Right. Yeah, she was like I was really worried that you were just going to like get married really young and then just like never kind of do your own thing. Transformation'Stoy Christian. I know really a lot. I didn't actually know that you genuinely believe to get married a night, genuinely, because that's like it seemed to be the age of a lot of people that I saw were getting married, because all of the people that I saw kind of moving into marriage were really young, but and also they were with like they met their future like spouses at school and like that's what I saw everyone doing. It's definitely small town religious school mentality. Yeah, it is exactly. But also, like, I don't think anyone in my you group was actually religious, like we were a religious school, but I don't remember people like I think a couple of people got married outside of school like that nineteen, but I don't recall it being for actual a certainly years above those are. Is One person that I know of that got married early for religious reasons, but I've I've believed well, happy, so that's nice. That's most people are in my grade, in my class, were actually religious and like came from religious families. The type of Religio school I went to, it was very much like, well, they're older sibling went there and their parents were associated with the church and they already knew all of the teachers from, you know, outside of school. So they mostly were, for the most part, were all religious. There were a few that kind of peppered in that were kind of the same situation as me, like their parents just wanted them to go to the school because it had kind of like the community reputation. Yeah, and so, yeah, that's just genuinely what I thought and I don't even remember like specifically thinking. I don't really think I've ever thought about my wedding. I don't think I ever even thought about like the INS and outs of like married life. I was kind of just like, well, that's what's going to happen, because that's like whatever and does. So that's how I thought then. And then a few years ago, when I kind of went through like my feminist awakening, I was like I hate that. Marry just so stupid. And then I literally called my mum one day to be like so, why did you even get married? And she was like, she's like, that's the thing you did, and I was like that is a stupid reason to get married. Can't believe it's not really another option, though. Yeah, you, because if you were not married, like doing such a thing. And Yeah, for like Jen, it still is. Yeah, still, if, still, if I, and I'm guilty of... too, if I'm on instagram and someone's like five year adverse room, like when they gotta be yeah, like I lay very first and I hate them because it's an expectation of your timeline and is an indicator, and I think it's an accidental, subconscious indicator of like they're gonna get married like at the serious MMM, because it is a pressing actually don't think that it's like I I don't naturally think that. By understand the mentality of like it's a because it's the ultimate commitment to another person and I understand that. When I think that sounds fucking terrifying, because I think this is a harsh belief that in some cases people get married or have a baby as a plug in a hole in the relationship. Yeah, hundred percent. I think it's like they're struggling a bit. I think this is what happened to milly and Liam. Sorry, yeah, I do. I think that there might have been a few gaps. M You think that doing the next thing? Yeah, I can't be bitter. said that about Viola and a somber. I think. Well, there is actually a youtube about so this is a real story, a you tube about who I used to follow religiously who got married. She wasn't super young. I think she was like probably in her mid s, to this guy that she'd been dating for years and then they broke up and when their divorce and announcement like shook the whole Internet and they both came out and said, like, our relationship was never perfect, we always fought like a lot, but we thought that getting married was like the answer to like our problems. It's just never going to be. Yeah, it's actually going to make it more difficult for you to fix those problems. Yeah, exactly. It is so difficult to get out of. MMM. It's weird that it's been normalized to get a divorce, MMM, but not getting married hasn't been normalized yet. That is weird. Actually, it's almost like it's better to have been married and divorced than never married. Yeah, because it's like, well, if you were Mary Prolat, but then I think about am what. It's hard because I think that, as someone from a really the child of a very, extremely, extremely extremely messy divorce, MMM, you ultimately have a lot of grievances about marriage in the first place, and I think it makes you go one of two ways. You either value marriage so much more, yeah, you're either like, I just want to find myself much, which is a ridiculous concept. Oh my God, that's just so ridiculous. I get it. I think that's the way I started to go for a few years, where, yeah, like I just want to fix it. Yeah, because it's such a savior complex thing to like well, I will be better than my parents. They sucked being in love. Yeah, or you're completely disenfranchised with the concept of marriage and you're like, I just why would i? It's not real. You just think it's so elusive as a construct. Yeah, it is in many ways, which I think I'm is the way I'm now starting to fork, because I think it's never going to be perfect and it's a it is and I get it. White continues to be this like a lovely idea of like ultimately loving someone so much, but I think it's placing a way too much pressure. I just don't like. For me, I'm just like what's the difference? Like you live together and love each other forever, like what? MARRIED NOT MARRIED? Like, what is actually the difference? That's what I could continuously wanted to myself. I think that people believe that it feels ultimately different because it's like more legitimate. Or Yeah, I think it's like it's weird because when you think about it, like when you failt a form when you apply for something like a Medica Cardibo, why I don't ask you. Like, I'm married. Yeah, yeah, it's like single or married, right. All you can click the factor on most forms these days. Yeah, I'm like, I think I click single. I've in a relationship for multiple years now right now, and it's like, well, that's true, you're either single or married. Yeah, and it's an interesting concept that. It's like, well, it's actually quite difficult to to prove that you're a de factor in a differentive relationship. Like you have to prove that you've been living together for a number of years than you have like financial sort of like there's some sort of CO financial situation. Yeah, shared would be rather than co financial. Dick. Yeah, we have that COO finance. Yeah, but it's like a or you have a shared child. It's a lot of things. It's like, well, I could have been a relationship for a lot of years, not live together, but be actually in a committed defector relationship, like a true interesting the barriers we put up and what we set as our S, and it's for a relationship as well. Yeah, considering that, and this is a really harsh opinion, something that I'm surprised I'm about to say. Wasn't planning on it. I truly think that seventy percent of relationships in the world are not right. Yeah, and I agree. I have this huge qualm with like people in unhappy relationships that just believe that it's better to be in a relationship, if it's shit, than alone. Yeah, I can't handle the idea of being alone. I think I sometimes I slightly disagree because I agree on your stat but I think that sometimes the reason is because they think that that is normal relationship. Yeah, behavior. Yes, I think it's...

...a, yeah, huge misconception. Yeah, I think it feeds into exactly the reason that people get married. Yeah, because it's where I think it's going to heal. Yeah, I think it's going to make it better. or it's like this ultimate thing where you're like, well, they've committed to being married to me. Yeah, so, but then it's really, in my mind, just like this connection that walks in and then you just in this sort of entrapment. I. Yeah, and I don't think that's what that's not why I'm not getting married. I just worry for people who are. Yeah, I'm sorry, that's me too. That's okay, I just had to Hicke up. No, I think. I think so harsh, because obviously I still might get married. I actually then we're going to pull out these for the things. Yeah, like gonna play them at your wedding. And I'm actually not saying that this is married couples, all of them at all, but I do have concerns, considering that a lot of couples that I know are in spots where I'm like, I would be unhappy if you got married at this sort of mentality. Yeah, like if you would genuinely because a lot of the time, and it's unfortunate, but you do see what goes on and you think, like when they get engaged something, you think, no, I think just hopefully, I hope they're doing better. Yeah, it's like you just saw an accidental bad bit. Yeah, yeah, I think that, but usually that's not the case. I'd sometimes, I don't know, again, depending on my mood, because I think I've like kind of mellowed out in the last like couple of years and now I'm kind of like well, you know, if you want to get married and that's up to you, but particularly when it comes to the wedding and how much people pay, like spend on weddings. I'm like why? And it was this like stress about the end, like arguing with your like future husband, usually sterotype, about the wedding plans. I'm like, who actually cares? Because who cares enough to spend? It's such a it's such a theatrical show that you're getting on to. I don't know what you're trying to prove. Yeah, that what you're trying to prove. Yeah, I agree. I don't know why you feel you need it. It's yeah, one day, and one day cannot fill you up. No, and I think that people probably surpassed the miles unsurprised by how to floated their left feeling. Yeah, I think it would be. Well, I mean even after again, when you get back from a holiday or like after a really good day and it's like Boh, I like, it's sorry, bark, but it's like exactly the definition between like old this instagram photos, like a perfect photo, but then I went home and had food poisoning from the restaurant. Like yeah, literally, it's and I don't that's I'm not equating marriage forced thing, but I think it's the definition of like reality versus. Yeah, casion of something and like the idealizing of this sort of event being like a huge master in your life. And obviously I truly believe in love and long term commitment and I'm I'm a monogamous person in a long, too long term, relationship. Something stand and I just worried that if I put marriage on a pedestal, I'll be left feeling quite hollow about the whole thing. Yeah, and if I get married, I'd want to do it on my own terms, in a different way, and I wouldn't want a big day and I wouldn't want a big party and I would a lot, a lot of people. I might have a hundred. Yeah, that would be big. That's just your close friend circle. That is for me. That's tiny. That's really shaving the numbers down. Kristen will have three. Three. I'm not a vited or I don't yeah, I think I just said so. I don't know. I'd really I try really hard not to be judgmental, but I just really struggle to if there's no like religious or cultural significance, to understand why. And I like, I know a lot of people, even listen to a podcast the other day that was basically like this woman talking about her part like long term partner who she ended up breaking up with, and she was like, well, we were both anti. I married an anti wedding. So we had an, in quotes, anti wedding where basically it just had a wedding, except it wasn't a wedding and they didn't officially get married. That has had like a big party but like well, I thought it was nice, but then like your immediate reaction, but having time to think on it. Yet all of the stuff that they did, it was just like a wedding. So then I was like why not just like have something else, or does that a wedding? It's okay to have a wedding party, but not the wedding. Yeah, just have the wedding without the party. It just seems to be making a statement that it's like conflicting itself. I just I worry people are being honest. Yeah, and I do see a lot of I think this is coming from a cynical place and I don't. I feel like there's also this angle that if you don't want to get married, you like cynical about love. That's just not it. It's just that I actually worry for people who feel like they have to get married. I'm, yes, saying don't. I'm not saying it because I do think it's a beautiful thing that can have beautiful outcomes. I actually do think, Oh, love is beautiful, wonderful, wonderful love, a good rumcom would die for. Like fuck, yes, yeah, but I don't want there to be this pressure that you have to do it. Yeah, you have to one up your fucking friend. That's for yeticulars. It's so ridiculous.

And it's so ridiculous that it's like three years when it's going to happen. Up Five years, you waiting a bit long, like it's yeah, the expectation, all this like aura and like vibe that surrounds it just disgusts me. I think that a like a really good teller for people who are, you know, getting married for like a healthy reason is like their level of obsession with the wedding. Like if there's too much hype around the wedding, then I it. It just seems to me, and I could never speak like in absolute but it appears to me that there may be like not enough thought being put into the marriage post wedding. Like what happens. Let's see equivalent of like women who, and I mean I have done this and do it continuously to this day, who like get pregnant or like are about to have getting ready to get pregnant, and met us like obsessed with the birth, but then don't think about the fact that after that you then have a child for the rest of your life. Yeah, they're like, which I get it, because I first scary. I literally watched a video the other day and this one was like this playlist made my birth easy, and I'm like, you've all fine, you have lost the plot, but like it's I feel like you know, you just kind of it's not about the wedding, agreed, it's about the marriage. I'm not going to not take an invite to a wedding either, some one of us. I love to go because I love got this so fun. Yeah, but I completely agree about like the hype around the day. MMM. And also, have you ever thought about, I think, Gagement Party, like what? Because Gage parties the wedding? Yeah, the Party for the actually, but since again, people who just want all the party? Do you just want party? But if you're allowed to have a party, I will admit that when it's my birthday coming up. I do call my birthday month, but I hope that's say we because I don't want to think about the age after the day's exactly. Yeah, that's true. I'm siding party. Yeah, I mean, I hate party, so I can't really speak on this very well. But I also have a problem, and I always had a problem with this and it's just ridiculous. But I'm just going to say people who get engaged but don't ever get married. Like I remember speaking to someone who used to work with and I we work together, and she had like a longish term boyfriend. It's hard to tell because I think they're only nineteen. I was eighteen, but it seemed like long term whatever, and they got engaged and I was like Oh, that's nice, like cool ring, Blah Blah. You like it's being one year countdowns on a single at the moment, but soon I'll be married. And I was like, I don't know, I think I asked a question about something. Obviously she said yes, and obviously she was wearing the ring and I think I asked about like the wedding or something about like are you excited? And she's like, I don't know if I'm going to marry him yet and I was like, I was like, so to you, engagement is just like the next step. It's just like well, first we date and then we live together and then we are engaged and then we are married. At it. It's like engaged to be married. That is the thing. It's not just like the next stepping. I just found it really bizarre. It's interesting because I actually understand why people take years to being engaged. Like I think you're fair enough. You're trying to save hmm, like I understand, like there's a whole movie the five engage, but never saw it, but I thought I was in yeah, my years is a long time. It's a long time, but I get it because I think a lot of people might like be like we're in love, but we could say it was money for this second day. Like yeah, I think. To me then I was like, I don't know, I shouldn't have an opinions. It's hard because all the elements of a wedding party. I love jewelry. That's a nice ring. Oh Yeah, nice dress. Get to be the center retention Goals Day for me. Yeah, Great Food, Oh yeah, people, free bar. Oh that I don't they read any elements? Food? That's the wedding, fun, Fun, Fun, ultimate party. It's all about you and love. So far. Yeah, the thing is that I think all of this weight is placed on the day where. Yeah, what about the honeymoon? Not just I'm more, I made sure sit in a honeymoon. I'm not just did it, but I'm also interested in having all the money I would spend on a wedding in a long term holiday. Yeah, exact like sapping, setting yourself up for bigger house to poselet or like thirty grand is the average. It could be inflated because it like obviously serves the wedding industry to say it's higher than it is, because people will spend more. They be like I'm a Bun, below average, but like thirty grand on a wedding. God, it hurts my soul. Why? I just I don't know, like I kind of understand, like I guess. I mean for someone who hates parties, like it is nice to have like everyone there, I suppose, but I don't know. And I also think that covid it seems to have changed the trend on weddings, because people are going for like smaller, more intimate gatherings. Apparently that's like projected to be kind of the preference moving forward, and I...

...wonder if that will make more people get married all less who will get married, because I feel like if I had my wedding canceled in Cope because of covid would I be like, well, I just want to like I just really want to be married, I'm going to go down to the courthouse. Who Cares about the wedding? Or would I be like, well, you know, it's I doesn't really make a difference to me. I'm not going to get married. Like I wonder if we're going to see a shift moving forward. I think that if I had a wedding canceled, I would not not do it. I would just reschedule. Yeah, because I think you've gone and have it the same way. No, probably not, but I would. I would alter it, but I would not have it interesting because, like you've prepared, you've cut, you've committed to a commitment. Yeah, in my mind, like, if I'm getting married, I'm getting married. I'm actually on I'm a huge Fenci at the moment and yes, I might record this in and two is be like just it was a beautiful day. I'm gonna lifelong commitment. This is the ultimate social good and presidiges like interesting, because I feel like for me, if that word happened for me, I would just be like well, you know, moments past, nothing really like nothing terrible happened when I didn't get married. I'm just going to move on with my life not being married. No, and I say that with confidence because similar things have happened. It's a massive in the past. I love how I'm just like argue against being a massive thing, but it is a if you're saying like I'm going to get married and you've gone to the effort to pick a day book things in yeah, and then they're like not, not today. You're really going to be like an author on the tower and it's not. I'm yeah, I'm giving up or marriage, but that's so interesting. I think I would. I think I would either dislike yeah, like do something supremely low key, like go and get the paper signed, yeah, or just like be like well, well, like how okay, like let's say it's the day after my wedding was supposed to be and I'm not married. I would be like well, it would my life be way better now today if, in like an ultimate reality, I was married today officially. I just feel like I would, it's really interest just be like, well, I don't think so. Quite like that opinion. I disagree with it, but I wouldn't do that, but I respect it. Yeah, and I think it's just, I don't know, I think it's like a quirk my personality. I know something that confuses me is like people who've been together for twenty seven years and I like proposed multiple times and I said, yeah, we just haven't got around to it. Yeah, you must be in love and busy. Yeah, why would you propose? Why would you propose multiple times? Is My thing. I get it. It's a it's a quirky I don't know, but like I quite a famous thing if I like, especially celebrity couples like you. You know, you propose. He prised, I res A and it's isn't that just like declaring to love? Then why are you was telling me love them, but you're already gaged. Why don't you just said what's get married rather than getting engaged again? Well, a couple that who are like influences. They it's like a straight couple and the man proposed and then a few months later the woman proposed, and that's like kind of what they planned interest which and I I was like, but you're already engaged, because I kind of get the same day. I think, well, I think that would be then no one special day. I think they both want to have a go a being like the special, like propos e, I suppose. How do you feel about either person proposing? I think. Do you mean like a gender wise? I mean in my relationship I wouldn't be the one to propose because of the dynamic. I feel the same, but it's I don't think. I guess this goes into a like a deeper question about like masculinity and femininity doesn't necessarily have to be associated with we who propose and does exactly agree? So I but I think there's probably like, and I don't know, this is just from my experience, I could be wrong, there's probably one person the relationship who is more likely to be the one who would prefer to be in the proposing position. Position. Yeah, probably the one who wants to get married and both that is true. Friends, are the one who is more likely to want to get married. Yeah, I mean, yeah, prob he did accidentally see very hot. He just said that often, though, we get married. You're like, I'm getting married. He's like Oh, whoops, but then I said that this morning. I was I think I said like when you propose to me, you can blah blah, and he's just like yeah, okay. Well, I've only obviously in the last few months started having these thoughts work before I was like I can't wait. Yeah, I am someone who used to think about my wedding day. Yeah, I've never thought about mine, which I think is an indicator before, like I've never done that. Embarrassing Person. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely been there. Would you? Have you thought about how you would like to be proposed to? If you did, we not CLU is public. That all, my...

God, saying yeah, why would you want that? No, thank you. Is Such an interesting episode because we've got from it like ill, married, like how did I actually thought probably the nicest proposal and actually saw this in real life on the Brooklyn Bridge. No taking a knee this, they would just like send here the on the Brooklyn Bridge and this like the man just like pulled out a ring and they were standing up together and he was just like well, I've good and he was like will you marry me? And she and there was like this heaps he will around, like no one was looking at them, though you were, I were, I was, I were looking at them, but it was just like a chat and it was like very intimate, like they were like very like, like they didn't see the world around them like you could. It was one of those moments when it's like are you completely unaware of everyone around you? That's really nice. And there was no kneeling and that was the first time I saw that and I was like interesting, nice thing, but I don't like taking a knee as such a like to me it's a quite a reductive thing, like yeah, I don't know how to pose that, but I I don't want someone to get on their knee for me, like it's it's an he's a right toll. They'd be really far away. I think it would be like yeah, if it was going to be. I think it would be nice to just have it as like a conversation, like yeah, on a really Nice Day. Okay. Well, with the ring, my parents bought this together. Interesting, they picked it together. I think that's true. Interesting. What if someone can propose with a ring? The thought was that Lys you've ever seen the other listening? I've ever seen? Yeah, and just so totally like, not you. It would be really hard for me because if it was David, he's much more stylish than me. So what if? You'd be like, I guess it's cool, but I don't know. I'm very bad things like this. I haven't something and he ultimately too bored. If he picks on I only I'd be like one of they like this, because one I'll reach fig I just can we go something different? I would ask for me. It would be like, do you even know me at all? Like I would probably have a crisis over it. That's how I feel about gifts, but this is like one of the most important, causing really embarrassing when I was in a hill note. If she hears a Shill, not one of my friends when we were in like you're nine or something. She's like, I think you should like a look on Pinterest for some engagement rings and then send them to me and then, in years to come, when you are like going to get proposed to you, before he proposes, I'll send him pictures so you won't have to ask. This is my most ridiculous friend. She's literally the best, but it's so funny to think that she probably has some still, like a guarantee. She's that friend that will be like the Captainin fate. Thank it. And what happen? I love. I love the fact that you both so. Did you send them to her? Yeah, I love the fact that you both will like didn't consider that your tastes may change between you and nine and when you're going to get in game rings. Oh, come on, come on, I don't think with rings really. Nah, I I would actually shut out to the billies. So I don't think I ever really want to wear a ring. My parents don't wear rings and I wonder if that's why. I don't really care what it wearing rings. I tried. I'm bad way and joy all together. I it always looks bad. I don't care about girls. I don't care about the ring. Like, if someone told me they're just gone engage, I'd be like, oh, that's really exciting. But I feel like most people be like my safing. I wouldn't look for the ring once. If someone told me, I wouldn't be like where's the ring? I'd be like that's really I yeah, what I'm thinking is I agree. I would want the story. That's my most that's would be my most interested to. Terrifies me that someone if, if they did in public, I'd like, you don't know me at all. Yeah, that's agreable. You know, the best proposal I've ever seen depicted on TV. This is not the PROCLAM bridge. I'm obviously my big Fat Greek wedding. I've seen her, but they're just like lying in bed together and he just pulls out of the ring and I was like that's the perfect way to propose. Yeah, because it's not about anything. Don't you have someone's birthday either? No, then new hijack the birthday, you do? You hijack another day. I don't mind about when Valentine, say Christmas, because I could be just like a nice wholesome day. I just but I feel like there's already so much going on. But it's like engagements, our anniversaries, but it probably be a date that year, although I don't even remember when my men got together. So that's that's something I think about. It's like, do you ever think about how when people get married they start from zero again with that big years they can yeah, that's really bizarre. At me. So, but it could. But that's another like example of Oh well, we were only legitimate for the time that we've been married, or to me, because I'm like when you could be together five to ten years before that. Yeah, and it's like, are you just saying that that was just nothing? Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, reductive towards that. Yes, stupid. I don't like I don't like it. I don't like it because I think that there's a lot to be said for how long you were together before the wedding. Yes, actually listen to this podcast today and I don't agree really, but these people were talking about why you're getting out by the ECO. CHACHI's pretty cool. Jen saids were basically arguing against being in a long term relationship in your S. Yeah, because clearly disagree so much. Seven year...

...relationship with your but we change a lot, yes, and like went through all and so I can kind of see. But I just thought the idea is so stupid because like, Oh, what are you meant to like, you know, meet someone who you really get along with him be like, I'm not dating at the mind could I'm any twenty three anyway, this is so off topic, but it's just great and I have to get out. I think it's something that I used to think. Hmm, I think, I mean I still do think it, like I'm in a relationship and happen for a couple of years and I am like occasionally, like fuck, I love you so much, she's so great, but fuck, like im I think like if this isn't work out, what if I've wasted like my entire S, but I don't think it's not going to work out, like I ob yess you truly believe that. But in moments of usually on my period, completely sensitive, you know, ten Tim Tims in, I'm like, what if I didn't bone enough, I didn't go? I'm mentality too. I'm surprised because when I wasn't, I wasn't with him, I wasn't boning, I was sitting around, like how do we end wealth, poverty? Was it in the clubs, like bow, wow, I don't think I want sex. Sorry, can I just say I was not sitting abound thinking about world. Probably I was in college being drunk all day and all, but I still wasn't voting. I was not in a place where I was mentally capable of like boning. Yeah, Um, I don't. I don't know. I feel like that time of my I honestly couldn't. I don't know what twenty one year old because I was thinking, frankly. I don't know what twenty one year on. Hannah was thinking frankly, and that was what month we November, I like fifteen months ago. Trying to think back, you really don't. I really never notice the age difference between. That's Wad I I turned twenty two this year. So six months. What? When was your birthday? July? How many? It's like fos for October. Yeah, for why I add that up so many times wrong. I don't want fifteen, six, they or tapically what I said six. I was told about that was yeah, you are, but you're also turning one four months ago as well. It's embarrassing to think about. Well, Nick, I'm going at when when I was twenty and he was nineteen. Damn Cougar. We're like literally exactly six months apart. I think, like almost to the day, like six months and six months minus one week. Want to be for stake, but yeah, I don't know about marriage. I don't know either, and it's been a scam. I do want to say that obviously I'm quite a fancy to so all that shit. I talked about married people. I'm sorry, like I actually do believe that many people are happy and in love. Yeah, I just worried that the pressure of the ideal makes people do it when they're not happy. Yeah, so I think I want to change the way we talk about it and it's and the expectations that we hold around it and at everything. We hold to it as a concept and as like a timeline thing. I don't want people to stop doing it. I just wanted to be a conversation about alternatives and like that. It's a normalizing to fact do yeah, the way that you've normalized divorce. Yeah, I don't. I have I like have the same hope, I guess. But for me it's more about because I don't know, in my opinion, even if you're in like a shitty relationship, that's bad, whether or not you're married to me. So I disagree with that point. But my opinion is like, if you're getting married and there's no, you know, like religious, cultural significance to it, then why? And I'm not saying like why you getting married, you stupid idiots, I'm like why, like examine, look within yourself. Why would you get married? Yeah, like, are you doing it for the day? Yeah, are you doing it because you just think you need to? Exactly like I don't think anyone should get married unless they can answer why do you want to be married? Because for me, I don't think I could answer that question. And whenever I get, you know, caught up in like a wedding scene in a movie and I'm my God, it's so beautiful and I love love, I'm just like, but why? But when you said like you disagree with my point about like war, if you're in a batt relationship outside or inside of marriage. Yeah, I just think that I agree with you because I think you're in a shit relationship, in a SH relationship. That's is blanket rule. Yeah, but I hate the notion that like getting married will heal or fix something. Yeah, me so. Had I think that people and having a lat on that. Yeah, yes, I think the baby is more the issue there. I think, yeah, people have a baby to fix something, but it's also like why when people get pregnant, they're like, they're not married, though, and the people always follow a pregnancy. I was like a quick engagement, yes, and I'm like, you don't need to like, I sorry felt that you've needed to do that. I mean, maybe it is genuine, but like a lot of time, I'm like you just feel worried about judgment, because I feel like that's such a bad byproduct of the social time whether we're expected to have. Yeah, I think it's it's really telling, like when the wedding happens, because I know some people who like had a baby that was a surprise and then when the baby's... to they're getting married, and I think there's a difference between that and like a quick like ring on the finger like a few months after the should feel comfortable enough to wait it out a bit. Yeah, yeah, and I think, I just think that if we remove like all of these like social norms and like, you know, capitalism, e. wedding bullshit, then it could be something really nice. But I just like we're not we're nowhere near that, and I even think that, you know, trying to like reclaim a wedding and like, you know, not having your dad walking down the aisle, not wearing red. I just feel personally that I wouldn't not really sorry. Even worse, I was like, damn, Christen, who's lady't even know anything my wedding s. But I just think that, like who, like, what are you trying to you know, who be trying to stick it to you by doing all these things? Because I used to think that I was just like, if I didn't get married, I'm turning the traditions on their head. But I'm like or I could just like not get married, like I'm not going to just get married and change these small things to try and like reclaim the day and make it mine. I just don't really like again, why? What's the point of that? That's the thing. I it's like people like, but she didn't have her dad walk her down there. All she's subverted. Addition, must like she probably has a shit time with her dad. She chose her mom, she chose no one. Like yeah, but like I told my dad the other that if I got married I'd keep my name and I thought he might be complimented that I'd keep his last name. Yeah, Holy Fuck, Oh my God, it was like I told him the peanuts are out of colds. He was like talking about and I was like, I like my name. It's a huge Hassel. Yeah, and he was like I just can't believe you right now. The friend of David. Okay, but it was like what about David? Felt about him? I like the ever' good it give a fuck? Yeah, like, yeah, no, I would. I don't. I would never change my name, but my mom didn't. Well, I know now that I know now that I wouldn't mind because my mom has a different last naime to me because she's changed it back to her maiden name. Yeah, doesn't affect me. And again effects. I mean it might be difficult on documentation, but it's never bothered I've never thought about honestly, and I hope I have not thought about in the past five years or whatever that it's been like that. Yeah, I don't. I don't know because I haven't had children, but I can't imagine feeling a huge sentimentality to my last time in the same as this. I let it matters to me that they had the same last times as their siblings. Yeah, see, I don't even care that much about that, but I haven't thought about it that much. But I think I remember one time one person said to meet me and my sister like Oh, do you think your parents will ever get married, and I was like hey, they are married. Yeah, because they didn't have it fad in this there was the only time I actually thought of it. But my mum has this life every time we talk about Moms, like it's your name, why would you change your name? That's and I was like that's true. But then I also hear this argument on the other side, because this like I think it was in a podcast, and one of the host was just like, even if I got married, I would never change my man name. And then I was telling my mom that and she was like, you already have a man's name, and I was like no, damnage. Think it's like on one side it's like I'm not trying to flex and subvert again, not changing mine, like it's not a big deal, but that it's like it is to me. Yeah, I like my name and I get that it's like a beautiful I get so beautiful to me. To be honest, that's a lie. I think I was trying to make people happy, people, please. I think it's more like I think people want to feel attached and like connected and all these things. But HMM, again, odds are you might have to change it back. That is true. Again, that's the space a bunch of pasports and that's just expensive. Well, I just I don't know. Yeah, for me it's I don't know, it still has like bit of ownershippy connotation. I think it is always benefits the man. Yeah, and I don't and with like even having like with kids. That the main thing for me is that there is a conversation behind it and it's not just like well, obviously I will be changing my name because I'm the woman. Obviously my kids will be named after my husband and or whatever. Like I don't like that. But like, at the end of the day, if it if like the conversation is hard and it's decided, it'll be one way or the other. Like, I think. I don't know. That's it's a lot better with me, and also Christian, like when we get more than nine listeners on this podcast, because I fast get Maran charge of my name. Like how would they possibly recognized? Well, they find you. That's the other thing. My W have to make my handle. My surn name is Parison Otto, like I'm going to hold on to that personal branding reason. Yeah, I sound like a weather man. There's no more people I know. Yeah, I like that name exactly. I just feel like it's a kind of like a before and after thing. Then yeah, it's just like, oh well, back in the day when my name was this, I actually three is like a. It is before him. And Yeah, yeah, I like that.

That's BS how long we've been calling for. I don't think that's fifty two minutes. That's pretty good. Yeah, yeah, okay, but I feel like the last thing that was said, I think you said, I can't remember. That was pretty good. I feel like it had come from a natural end. Yeah, the joke. Yeah, the end. And if you found us just totally a relatable a Grek, come back next Wednesday for a new episode. Until then, head to cheek, Mediacom data. You to tie you over until then. By good day.

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