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The Weekly Cheek
The Weekly Cheek

Episode · 4 months ago

71. Power and Abortion: the Fall of Roe v Wade

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

CW: This episode talks about abortion

In this episode, we're talking about abortion and the fall of the landmark Roe v Wade legislation in the US, and if/how it could affect us here in Australia.

Find us online at cheekmedia.com.au and on socials @cheekmediaco, and become a Patron for $4 per month!

Hello, I'm Christ and Parison Otto and I'm had a focus in and where co founders of cheek media go. This is the weekly Cheek podcast. Before we start this podcast, I would like to acknowledge that we are on solar land of the Yaga and terrible people. amticularly with this very feminist topic. I would like to specifically acknowledge all of the work done by feminist activists who are first nations in this country before we even came along. Welcome back to the weekly cheek welcome. So this is a bonus episode of the PODCAST. I want to use the term bonus really loosely because this is about to it's not fun distress, it's not a special bonus. It kind of gives the the vibes of like Oh, fun, extra. It's not just say extra. I think it's just that this week has been awful. Yeah, and I think that approaching the election, we thought there was going to be a day we were going to have to sort of do a quick, put together pod on something major that happened on the election trails. I'm shocked it's not that. Yeah, yeah, so it's about and the reason that we are releasing it early so recording and releasing the same day, which we don't usually do, is because this is a changing topic and I'm sure that in a couple days something new will have happened. So this is this is Upsett as of Saturday, the seventh of May at six am. Okay, just take a minute fact. Okay, so, if you've been living under a rock and you don't know what's happened this week, essentially, earlier this week, politico, which is a news website, released, released breaking news that a Supreme Court opinion from the United States had been leaked. Essentially, the opinion that was leaked was a majority opinion held by five members of the court and it was written by Justice Alito. Now, the opinion basically indicated that if...

...it was released and publishing its current form, it would overturn the landmark one thousand nine hundred and seventy three decision of roversus Wade. Versus Wade is a case, a very famous case. It's been around for fifty years. That essentially guarantees a constitutional right to abortion for women. In the US Constitution there actually is no mention of abortion, but it comes under the fourteenth amendment, which guarantees a person's personal liberties are protected. So that sort of is like a right to privacy in a way, or it indicates that there's this element of power personal lives that aren't controlled by the government and that this is obviously in the US, is not in Australia, but that's the essence of roversus Wade. So it is a federal right, meaning that states cannot legislate to ban abortion that doesn't meet the criteria of reversus Wade, which also introduced the idea of abortions cannot be banned before twenty three weeks, because it introduces idea of feed or viability at twenty three weeks, twenty four roughly. Yeah. So the actual case itself that this opinion is from involves a state of Mississippi who were trying to overturn the law to make to ban abortion after fifteen weeks. Only one abortion clinic in the entire state of Mississippi there is an aide present. Yeah, Oh my God. So this case saw the center for reproductive rights argue on behalf of this clinic against the band. So they essentially Mississippi brought in a law in the state, but at the state level, saying they'll banning abortion before the beating abortion after fifteen weeks. It went to the District Court where they's basically the center of Reproductive Rights, sued the state and said you can't do that's unconstitutional because of reverses wave. The District Court struck it down and said you can't do that. Agree. Right, and it was a very, very strong argument, pointing to Roe versus way. It was appealed to the US Court of Appeal, fifth circuit, which is traditionally a very conservative circuit court. Right. They also struck it down and said, you fuck can't do that, unconstitutional. Now, when is it?...

So this was happening last year. Yeah, in December of last year, when Amy Coney Barrett, who was infamously trump's final supreme court justice appointee, who they also known to be the least qualified person to ever be appointed to the sprint court. She's only been a judge since two thousand and seventeen. I believe. She was the third and final appointee of to the Supreme Court under trump. So that's making up a third of the bench. Big Anti Feminist, beg anti feminist. When she was appointed Supreme Court, despite the appeal court and discript court striking down the law, took on the case to the highest level. So the Supreme Court in the US is the highest court. In our country it's the High Court of Australia. It's a bit different. Scrim court talks on. In December of last year, the arguments that were raising, some of the old debates that occurred throughout the case indicated that the Justice is would overturn rovers his way. So there's been worried for a while now. Yeah, this opinion that's been lead was actually drafted in February. It was only it's only set to be released in June. So we're we were expecting it to come out. But the fact that's been leaked, we have no idea who buy. There's a lot of talk about which sides done it. There's a lot of drama about that sort of thing, but essentially that's not the problem. They're investigating that. Who gives a fuck right now? And but the I think one of the problems is that the justice who drafted it does give a big fuck about who leaked it. Absolutely, which is so cool. I mean what he said. It's an really and agreed and agreed. Sorry, I don't mean to be laughing. It's very serious. It's very serious, but let let's have a little joke here and there, because that helps everyone turn have fun and reproductive rights. Have Fun, Del please. Yeah, so he had a big put up, like made a big stink about the fact that someone leaked it and it was like an egregious breach, breach of justice, and I'm like interesting wording. Yeah, especially because he also described in the decision, in the opinion,...

...he described versus wags agregiously wrong. Yes, that's pretty sister, since favorite word. Yeah, agreges is just fancy word. I don't think you need to use it in any context. But Anyway, whatever, we'll go for that later, as my my personal opinions on the word agree is yeah, okay. So the first thing I think we should talk about is like the implications in the US for what could happen in a post roverse is weighed era if it falls, which it's likely. Let now very like I think it's important to say that when decisions are being drafted, when opinions are going to be released, there is a lot of back and forth, like people don't usually fundamentally change their position or their stance, but as like. The other thing to note, and I think it a lot of people will know this, but essentially what happens is you might have a couple of majority opinions on a court bench, but in this instance, sorry, five are part of this Alido's opinion. Yeah, right, so when a majority agrees, that's the opinion and then anyone who doesn't agree is the dissenting judge. Yeah, so you've got three who are dissenting out of the five that are agreeing to overturn versus wag which resulted at being over tone because it's a fucking majority. HM, three other trump of pointees. Yea of the five to have had credible allegations of sexual assault made against them, one being brack haven, our her friend remembers. HMM, that's not helpful. On my Fini was named the Guy, other guy. Yeah, other guy. So that's just a fun fact for you. I'm not going to add anything. HMM. Okay, now we're looking at what if it's overturned, which I think we should be expecting. That the final position we've published in June. I think if that's the expectation, we should just leave with that and possible that I'll change positions, just to confirm once the Supreme Court makes a decision, there's no one more powerful than that that can overturn it. No one. Of the fundamental arguments that's being made at the moment is that the government has the ability to codify road versus way at the moment. What is that? So they could make a federal piece of legislation and pass it through Senate. And what's the other thing called? It isn't just that our Congress. Yeah, so...

...they could. They could. They have at the moment, which was they tried to pass last year in December, I believe it's called the women's Health Protection Act. That codifies the right to abortion. Right, it means that state at state level, have no control to could put in place bands. Right, HMM. It was blocked in the Senate. Right, they need fifty votes. They didn't get them. Did the Republicans still have the Senate? I thought that their powerful enough to stop it. I don't know what the current makeup is. Yeah, okay. The other thing is there's like a filibuster where they could reduce the number of votes needed, but that has right acted. Right. So there is an argument that that could occur where the women's Health Protection Act could be passed and not and and unblocked in the sender. Really have another guy at it. They could another run it if Biden pushed it. Yeah, but the other question then is what does that do to the arms of government and challenging each other? Because the judiciary and the house like, Hmm, the these are two vile elements and they're directly conflicting. Yep, usually Supreme Court decisions aren't undermined so visibly. Yeah, and yeah, tangibly. It's it's a bit of an odd one, but it is possible, basically, if reversus Wade is to fall next month or, you know, whenever it whenever the decision is published, if it's maintained in its current form, which it could be, because it's but it's basically finalized. The way it looked was very, very much how a classic decision looks. Wasn't an early draft, wasn't like a you know, you know how Shitl looks when you write the and then leave the document open. It's not that. It could be releasing its current form and it would look real. Yeah, right, and they've confirmed the authenticity of the document as well. So there's three categories of state and how their reactions will be to the fall of reversus. Way, you've got states that will protect and preserve abortion law. Yep, there's a there's like New York. Yep. So I think there's about sixteen states that will do that. California, New York, DC, blah, blah, blah. Is it out a fifty? By...

...the way, it's not many. It's not many. And I think some of the crucial parts of this are that those states will also try and bring a legislation that protects people that help people from Inter state. So that's conflicting law as well. So say, if you've got, you know the Dakota's, say North Dakota goes, we're going to be an abortion and we're going to have we're going to be able to charge people who assist others outside of the state who are from North Dakota. They're come and get an abortion. California and puts in the law that says if you assist someone that comes from into state, you are protected. Yeah, part of those two laws work right. So there's a big question. But they're going to try and and they also want to bring a litigation for people that get abortions from interstates so they can protect them. So there's like a lot of very progressive legislation being passed. Then you've got twenty five or twenty six states, the moments that currently stands, that want to totally bean abortion. M Thirteen states currently have trigger laws in place, which essentially means that they've created legislation that's in place at the moment that says if roverse is wag is overturned, abortion is band. YEA, so it's a trigger law, which just makes sense that once that happens, this happens. Yeah, automatic is automatic, so that's pretty much fucked. Yeah. Then you've got the people, the states that will bring into effect legislation that bands abortion. Some will be total bands, some will be only in circumstances where the person carrying the child is in a life threatening situation. Then you've got some states that, so very kindly, will have exceptions for rape or incest. Right, that is so, so generous. It's generous now. So a question. May Not know. But the ones that don't have trigger laws. What's going to happen in the interim between reverse wade getting overturned and then bring your new laws? Will there be like is there like a I guess as a great speriod? Like the other thing is a lot of if there's no law in place, then it would be I think a lot of the states have in place at the moment old laws...

...that don't take effect. So maybe before row versus way, they had love like a one thousand nine hundred forty decision that band abortion. So once Rogos ways overturned that, it goes very and stated. Then you have some states that have nothing. Okay, I don't know what that means, right it probably wouldn't it just mean like if you kind of just take the ring? Yeah, the other thing is, I was this is really terrifying to me, like I think some of the actions, like I've read that Louisiana is starting to pass legislation that makes abortion a like a homicidal effense, so you would be charged with murder. Jesus Christ. The other issue is there's like a range of elements of this, one being what does that do to miscarriage? I was listening to this podcast from the New York Times opinion called sway, and they had the CEO of the center of Reproductive Rights who talked about the fact that their center is representing will women in El Salvador who were serving ten, twenty, thirty year sentences because they had a miscarriage work up in hospital and they were believed to have had an abortion or induced an abortion. So there's this view, then, that how do you interpret whether someone's had a miscarriage or an abortion? I think that also because obviously making abortion illegal mean doesn't mean that women stop having abortions. It means that they stop having safe abortion. Absolutely. So then, with that understanding, which legislators do have, because they're not fucking idiots, that there's probably going to be much more suspicion around, Yep, miscarriages, absolutely, because you need particular evidence, you need witnesses like these could be charged as crimes and there's really what is the evidence? Who's well, WHO's the witness? Yes, like the there's no murder, but there's like also these questions around. I know I've been reading a bit about this. There's been articles release that are informing women how to protect their digital digital privacy. M because anyone who can have who can become pregnant, is going on the Internet and may be researching abortion clinics.

To the end, this goes so far as to people who track their periods on through APPS, and because reverse is way as inherently linked to a person's personal liberty under the Fourteenth Amendment and so therefore their privacy from the government. If that is undermined and revoked, then if they essentially states may have the power to breach someone's digital privacy and look at what they've been doing online, look at their behavior, if they've booked into a clinic, if they, you know, on particular medication, all these things that they're doing on the Internet that may indicate the pattern abortion M so it's also researching. Imagine the resources put into the if you're in social community groups on facebook that are pro abortion. Like these things are possible and they're very real fears, and I think that's the other part is like this would be chaos for not just months after rows overturned, but potentially up to two years while these states legislate, while things change, while they work out what they can and can't do right. It's terrifying. I I I don't know how that must feel to be like, Oh, I should be careful of how I'm tracking my period because that might indicate that I'm pregnant. Mo if than I wasn't pregnant, they could see my Daver and and that's fucked. Yeah, so, yeah, that's lovely. I think that one of the things that I've just been thinking about, like, especially with all of this research and like the threat privacy threatened all of the states that are going to have to be creating that new legislation. Like that is so much like so many people's time, money, state money, taxes and resources putting into removing a law that has been in place for fifty years when, like, America is completely fucked. To be honest, and I'm not saying I think sometimes that comes off as a bit like we're perfect. We're not. But, like, think about the amount of people who are going bankrupt and are becoming homeless because of medical debt,...

...for example. Student debt is crushing, like, their cost of limic living is completely fucked. Their minimum wage, like there is so much going like so much in America that could actually be they could be spending time, money and resources on to improve the sender of living for Americans, and instead they're using all of these resources to reverse a fifty year old decision that is based in their constitution. I think the other thing that's really concerning them that I know that in me a innion itself. The justice has try to point to or justice leader in writing. It points to this this idea of it only referring to abortion in terms of this fourteenth amendment right to the personal liberty right. But all of these like the precedent that row sets is represented in fifty years of case law since so things like contraception, things like the way that you teach and educate your children at home, things like LGB, LG TB Qia plus rights, same sex marriage into racial marriage. There is legislation federally that protects people in the US to choose to do these things because it's their personal liberty to do things through a site side from the government. Right. That's that view. All this case law stands on the shoulders of row. So when you undermine that piece of case law, what happens to the rest of it? Do the domino's all just fall? Yeah, and while these justices might be like it's particularly about abortion, that doesn't necessarily stop those things from falling next. But also we know the types of like those those five people like and a particularly the trump appointing is like what we know where their values see it. Yeah, so what those? I don't think that any of those other decisions are safe. And there's another famous Ission in ninety one thousand nine hundred and ninety two. That was plant parenthood, planned parenthood, verst the Casey, and that altered row but also like and shrined it. So there's just so many cases that are undermined as a result of this. And like, fifty years before row and fifty years after, a created a whole bunch of rights that are now challenged by its challenge. Yeah,...

...you know what I mean, like it's there is so much to answer for. The other thing is, like the practical effects of this are that women in there's two geographical clusters of states that are going to ban abortion. I think we you know, as much as I have a limited knowledge of American geography, we know it's the Midwest and the south. Yeah, that like the clusters. MMM, there are a couple of states we don't know what are going to do. One is Florida. They currently have legislation in that has, I think it's they've been abortion aftter fifteen weeks. Right. We know that ninety percent of women have an abortion within the first fifteen weeks of a pregnancy. M So if they keep that, that's half decent legislation and it means that women in the south have somewhere to go. If Florida decides to get make their laws more conservative or band abortion totally, it changes the geographical makeup of how people who can have the capacity to be pregnant access abortion. So it might mean that they instead of traveling one stead over, they have to travel hundreds and hundreds of kilometers. I read a start this morning that one in four women in America have choose to end a pregnancy in their lifetime wanting way. That's some for HMM again, I I know that we say you can't ban abortion, you can only ben safe abortion. Hmm, I do think that less people have an abortion. Yeah, I agree, but at the end of the sorry, what I said, what I should meant, is like it's not like, oh, no one is ever going to get him an abortion again. It's like not the same amount exactly, but it's also going to be like the privileged people who didn't fucking matter anyway, they could have accessed this is a thing. I would love to know how many people in American politics have a partner or, and I say a partners, most of the men, straight white SIS men have a part of this had an abortion. Yeah, and I think that, again, one of the best points that we've we've spoken about, we've tweeted about, is that reproductive rights are everyone's rights. MMM, they affect our partners, they...

...affect everyone in our lives. Yeah, whether you know it or not, you've probably benefited from them. HMM. And what other law dictates what a man can do with his body? Yeah, there's none. It's exhausting, but it's interesting to see what the couple of states who have this power to at least provide some protection will do. And I think the argument from the like the fundamental argument for the Supreme Court, is like we want to give the power and authority back to the states. And interestingly, that is actually what's the case in Australia. HMM, it's state jurisdictions that have the power. Yeah, but we are much more progressive with our our pro life views, our pro choice views, with our pro choice views. Every state in Australia has decriminalized abortion. South Australia only in two thousand and twenty one so it's recent, but it's across all states and territories in Australia at the moment. Yeah, Gold I think. I think like when it first happened, and I think the like a bit of an overwhelming feeling in Australia from what I was reading, is that people didn't quite like I felt very passionately when I heard about it, and I think that it took us to get as sure as to get, you know, on board with and get up to date with it. It took a little bit longer than I thought because I think the argument for Australians is like, oh well, that's not that doesn't affect me, and that's something that really, I think it like triggers me because I remember when trump was the like became the president. Everyone's like, well, I don't know what your problem is, that it's not like you don't live in America. Yeah, and I'm like, first of all, have you ever heard of empathy? Like that's really fucked up that you don't like literally don't give a shit. Yeah, the other thing is like the power that America has, like particularly pertaining to someone like trump. He was not only the president of America, he was a president of the free world and in a lot of ways countries like Australia, probably like Canada, New Zealand, maybe not so much the UK, do follow America in like a...

...lot of I'm not necessarily saying about abortion, not like culturally. It's just like, well, it's kind of like aspirational the way we look at America. I read that somewhere that Australia has been references the fifty one state. You know, oh Jesus, but I know. But I think that we follow the more closer than any other common wealth, Nur jury. I think culturally we're in step and I think there's a lot of comparisons that can be drawn between Scott Morrison's politics and views and Donald Trump's and even their attitudes like, and I wrote an article about this this week, but the way that trump, like, was not loyal to any one except for himself. He wanted a power. That's why he became the president. You know, I don't think he gives a fuck about whether women are having abortion or not. It's just that he had a base that he knew he could win, which was the Christian ultra conservative base, and they wanted to burn Ben Abortion. So that's what he was. He did like he it's all because of him, like one, one fucking term of this conservative, fucking lunatic. And this is what we're seeing now, overturning of a fifty year old piece of legislation. And I think that the other worrying part is this is just the start. They took up this case in order to overturn a decision that's been upheld for fifty years and they didn't have to because there was strong that there was a court of Appeal in a district court decision that's strongly disagreed with the state of Mississippi and his piece of legislation. And I think the concerning part is these people have lifelong tenure. Yep, they can sit there until they die. YEA, which they will. They will, he's the implications of that presidency will be felt for our entire lives. Yes, and this is the first step, and I think a lot of people go on Gilly ad old. This is so just Hopian, it's actually predictable as well. Is the is the most frightening part. Yep, and it's just going to keep going and if this falls, it is an an affect. I'm going to...

...kick seeing keep saying this happening and I think that people were very responsive this week. She asked talking about the Assistant Minister for women, Amanda Stoker, last Saturday, so as would have been the last day of April. I don't know why I need to add that. What the fuck everyone was it just after the Rovy Wade was not, it was before. Okay, interest. So I think reversus Wade was Tuesday. Yeah, and I made a stoker attended a anti choice rally on the weekend alongside you know, all the greatest hits, Matt Catavan, George Christensen, number of other politicians. She spoke at that rally and one of the get the quote to Im. I've got it here. Read it. It really does baffle me why there are some people who have questions. We questioned whether it is appropriate for a person like me to serve as assistant minister for women because I am pro life, Stoker said. They suggest there is some sort of conflict between those two roles, which is just a completely fucked thing to say. Yeah, like, I just, like, I I understand that everyone has their own beliefs, but it's just like it doesn't baffle you. It doesn't fucking baffle you so full of Shit. This woman shits me to fucking tears. She is the most and you remember a few maybe last year, she was like painted as dislike feminist icon because of something that she said on a panel that I'm like, fuck off. She was literally at a fucking anti, anti choice rally the next week after this thing. But, by the way, Scott Morrison afterwards said that said of her attendance at this rally. It's a free country, and he, which he's so feast pe, fucking would. The thing is, fuck's got Morrison. Fuck Amanda Stoka. You know what, and this is the hardest thing I'll ever say because I fundamentally hate it, but it's my belief you can protest whatever you want. Yeah, I protect and I will support and I would defend someone's right to protest, even if I fucking fundamentally disagree with what they're talking about. The issue isn't that she was at the protest. The issue isn't that she was at a rally and that...

...she was sharing her beliefs. The issue is the position that she holds. Yep, you cannot represent women and women's issues and gender issues, and I know that abortion doesn't just affect women. There's a range of people who can become pregnant, but I heard that her her title is the Assistant Minister for women. Exactly. You cannot actively protest reproductive rights and claim to represent women and further gender equality and gender policy that supports the improvement of women's conditions. Yeah, in the fucking country if you're anti our own rights. Exactly, because at the end of the day, and I've said this before and I live and die by it, is that Conservative, conservative views are all based on sticking their nose into other people's fucking business. Like, it's fine, Amanda, stoke it if you don't want to ever get an abortion, don't fucking do that. The the actual point is that the woman has the person who's the the issue is that the every person who gets pregnant has the opportunity to decide whether they want to continue to be pregnant, continue to have a child's like. It's not. I just think that that gets so mixed up all the time. It's because she would be like, well, I'm for women because I want women to not like, stop murdering their babies. It's not your fucking business what other people do with their own bodies and uteruses. I despise her so much. Just think like to be part of a government that is so anti supporting childcare, supporting women in the workforce, supporting women's rights generally. To turn around and say, you know, it baffles her that we would be upset with her choice to be so anti our reproductive rights doesn't make sense. You cannot be actively legislating against the improvement of our conditions of women and children and then say, but you've got to have birth yeah,...

...you've got to have you've got to give her. I hate it because I keep saying good lines and then fucking it up at the end anyway. Anyway, I just think that she's canceled. She's canceled. Can I read this other quote from there? Yeah, this is completely fucked. I've never heard of this person, Bernie Finn He's a Victorian state MP. Yeah, liberal, obviously, Star. He said this quote, which gives me chills. So excited the US is on the verge of a major breakthrough to civilization. Proud it will come here soon. Killing babies is criminal. Then he shared a meme reading civilized societies don't kill they're young what the fuck? That is a weird aside from the fact that are like, I disagree with everything about it, is a really weird turn of phrase to say it's friendly reminded that a fetus is not a child. I love the arguments that are like yeah, but if you were a borted you wouldn't be here. Yeah, what's okay? It's such a weird such a weak argument. That's just what people say when they have no fucking idea about anything. Yeah, it's like that viol tick tock sound. That's like you know that the fetus is not in the woman's body, don't you? You understand that, don't you? Or whether fuck, is it there floating along behind me like a balloon? Fuck you, I think so. The way that the US is set up is very different to it. Like the US legal system is very different to our asturn legal system. But, like I'm particularly because it's election time, I think would be a remiss of me not to say again this has happened because of one term of trump. We've already had one term of Scott Morrison. And even if our because our abortion legislation is bait like jurisdiction, like it's based on the state and territory, in states and territories, not federal...

...it. But I think that it is important to just think about, like how these conservative governments and conservative bodies work. Like I said before, they're all about using valuable resources to regress society. And the thing is we know Scott Morrison and Barnaby Joyce's views on abortion. Yep, Scott Morrison, and I think as much as this doesn't say anything, it says everything, I think, in a two thousand and nineteen quote. When New South Wales is passing their bill to do criminalize abortion, he shared his view, which was I'm of a conservative view on this issue and I think I'm want a conservative. You have a lot of issues, but I won't say more than that. Yeah, and that tell us everything. We just know about what he thinks. Barnaby Joyce actually called on Scott Morrison to sort of decry the bill, to cry really yeah, Bonny Joyce was also pushed by his own party to step down because he led an anti abortion rally in Sydney. But he was like nap. The nationals pushed on him to step down after that, particularly only within his own party. fucking hell, because he led a rally Oh Fox, one of her own staff, as in a largely sexually assaulted someone. So, you know, great, I. I. I also always the men who do that Shit and then they're like, don't do anything, it's it just it's consistent with their views, which is like women are objects for you to enjoy. Yeah, so it's like you can enjoy doing whatever the fuck you want with them and then you get to have no consequences because you learn a fucking pay for some absolutely really fucking abortion because you will always have access to it, and a lot of women do not, unless it is like legislated. Safe and accessible. Abortion is a socioeconomic issue because it impacts those in poverty the most. Yeah, and I think that we know Dominic Parrot has conservative us on this matter. Hmmm, I know that a lot of other state premiers do. Yeah, so that's worried. Yes, very concern and the worry is that this legislation can be mended, it can be changed, and I don't think this is an immediate threat here,...

...but I think the point being that when we know the people in power share these views culturally, when there's a wave like this that occurs, it can be a suggestion or antagonizing the issue to be raised here, and it already is having these discussions right. Yeah, it's dangerous and it scares me and I think we need to be hyper aware of what's happening in the US because it could happen here. It's not impossible. The system. They're giving power back to the states. The state's already have power in Australia and while I don't think it's an immediate issue and I think there would be a larger outcrime is country, because I think we have more progressive views on this matter. I don't know how by like. I do not know by how far that's true. Yes, and particularly because our governments are consistently more conservative than our populations, and that is that is like true everywhere. Yep, if we look to the pattern of behavior of how vulnerable groups are treating this country, that tells you everything we need to know about how threatened we should feel about the issues of our reproductive rights. If you didn't find us a completely insufferable, come back next Wednesday for a new episode. Could also find this on instagram at cheek media core or online cheek Mediacom donated. Yes, that's all. That's the one.

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