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The Weekly Cheek
The Weekly Cheek

Episode · 4 months ago

75. Is the word 'bitch' anti-feminist?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, we're talking about the word 'bitch' and other gendered language we use to insult others. Have we really reclaimed the word 'bitch'?

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Hello, I'm Christa Parison Otto and I'm had a focus and where co founders of cheek media go. This is the week the cheek podcast. Before we start the PODCAST, I would like to acknowledge that we are on stolen and unsee the lands of the Yagara and terrible people here in Queensland and acknowledge their elders, past, present and emerging. All right, so in this episode or and before, it's not all. Sorry, welcome back to the latch. If you are not a patron of ours, we now have a patreon for four dollars a month. You can have access to extra content on our instagram, close friends and you can support us and independent media company WHO's not paid by anybody except our patrons and ourselves. In this episode we're going to be you. We're going to be talking about the word Bitch, the B word, the B word, whether it is anti feminist, whether we are allowed to use it anymore, if we say the word feminists, etc. Do it to you, over to you. So put up a poll, put up a question box other day on stories, asking people you know, what's a question that you might have for our audience, like a feminist question, political question that you'd want to pull out K mom and one of the questions of Ka back was is it still acceptable to use the word bitch, like he's Drogatory, like. Is that a thing we're still doing? Yeah, as women, as a society player, that wasn't. I just expanded so fucking much. Person said and I basically just put back a polte run saying do you use the word? And sixty seven percent said yes and thirty three percent said No. MMM, interesting, that's IT and of point. So people are using it that frankly. That yeah, that's what we've concluded. So, wait, was it sixty six? Sixty seven percent said yes, they use it. Yeah, HMM, I use it. HMM. Do use it sparingly, but yeah, it's not I preferred word of insults. Yeah, but I also I think, I think what the question comes back to is, like, when we're talking about words that are designed to be derogatory towards women, how do we use them? Why do we use them and should we use them? Yeah, right, so when I use the word bitch, I don't ever use it to insult another woman. HMM, I don't think. I can't remember last time I did that. I probably have recently, but I can't recall it because I generally try to actively avoid it. Yeah, I don't think men should use the word bitch to describe women. I at all. I can't think of an instance, like they shouldn't use it to describe women, but I can't think of an instance when I've heard of men used the word bitch where it hasn't meant to describe a woman. Yeah, I agree, but also like if you call a man a bitch, it's like saying that he's like, we can woman like exactly, so right. So, cry like a girl, play like a girl. Yeah, like a girl, but but it is literally using it to make them feel worse on the basis that they are acting in a way that it's like a woman. Yes, I think that a lot of the responsive. We got a lot of messages about this one which I was well, I was like, I think we should pod on it. Is because a lot of women say that it's being the Lang which has been altered to now be empowering. So it's like what'soking about? A badass bitch, bad bitch. But I don't really use those phrases like I was thinking that I do that I don't think I do. I usually use bitch and a droggatory way about myself as a joke. Yeah, like there's we this is a bit sad I'm going to say this, but we have this thing we're just quite recent as an in joke, MMM, where when I do something wrong or so, like this is an example, I will use words that we shouldn't be using about women to describe my actions. Yeah, so I'll be like the God said that email, what a stupid slap, or I'll be like yeah, I and it's a bit awful and I get it, and they all this needs this. Might be like that is so cancelable. Yeah, sure, thing, but even you never said about other people. Know, it is always like, dumb bitch you. I feel like having you know, take it the chicken out of em freezer. When we complain about people, where you usually cool them queen, like, Queen, why are you doing that? And Nicer about beople we don't like than ourselves. Yeah,...

I am. I think it might not necessarily be acceptable or normal for anyone. I was listening, but I think the thing is it's like, in a way of reclaiming and making a joke out of that as a drogatory term. Yeah, because I literally would never use that to describe another person. No, but it's kind of funny to me to use it to describe myself, and I don't know why. Yeah, but it's my favor joke at the moment. Yes, it is very fun. Well, that's why I don't. I never use the only thing I can in recent memory recall using the had slot about is that when I was talking about that sealed section in Dolly man and I'm like the slutty section. You know, you're in the in your bathroom, Bein you know, you've just turned twelve and Mumblot got your Dolly and you're like I always I never wanted my mom to see that I've actually opened the yes section. Yeah, so I'd be like stupid, I am such a I'm reading. It's like any really, like, I have hair in this place. Is that nor? I have a crushed on my brother. Is that normal? I Bel that's not good. The hair. Yes, normal, crush on brother. Not Normal. No, not recommended. Dolly doctor had some Weird Shit. It did, but I can't. It's kind of like pretty progressive for the time. I feel like everyone who is like within our age range to like recall learning important things. Absolutely. Girlfriend was the worst one, like, yeah, they were quite differently. I feel like Dolly was good. I always felt like Dolly was the slutty one and girlfriend was like girly one. Yeah, that's interesting. I didn't ever really bite either of them. I got a subscription jolly one year. I remember interesting lay with the seal sex and I really don't care about that. My mom didn't buy it for me. She was like not that trash in here. Did you ever get that book girl stuff? Bi Has Cook No, neither. No, I feel like I missed something. Yes, with that, I think I missed a moment since, yeah, I did have a total girl though. Oh yeah, total girl was so good. I can remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah, total girl. No boys allowed for girls, only dinner again them. When I was thinking about this, I was thinking about like how we don't like if anyone uses the word pussy to describe someone weak and just like cured, and so I'm like I hate that. So why don't I like? I feel like I don't quite feel that strongly about the word bitch. I don't know why. I only use the word like I know I'm going to cancel myself. I have, I do still, on rare occasion, use the word bitch to describe, to complain about. Oh, I'm so canceled a woman who has done something I seem to be like abhorrent. Yes, but even when I say it, I like kind of flinch. I. But it's very like calculated when I get so I think I think that's like your trump card. Yeah, right, I might that. This means I'm just fucking serious. I don't think. I actually don't think we use it in a couple of years. Right, yeah, because I think it's like rare enough now that it's like I think that's on the way out. Yes, you can plan. Usually don't treat plans as I like this one. She's my friends. It's because it's a good fake one. Yeah, you like that was better. Yes, it's fake. I think you've told me this before. It looks so real. I should never have said that. It's real feels. No, it doesn't. Back to it. I I'm I don't even if it's exactly, because I'm sure I've described Woomans bitches before. I find that when I use it and it's actually being using a drug try manner. It's more that it's an I don't think I use it as often to say like you're you're a bitch. I think it's more like you're being a bitch or describing something as bitchy. Same, so it's not saying the person is, but it's saying the behavior is in line with the word. Yeah, and I feel like it's like I don't think that makes it less bad necessarily, but I think it's like using it as an adjective. Yeah, but it's like represents something. Yeah, yeah, like I'm actually the opposite, like I would never say that someone is being bitchy, because I usually use mean...

...girl instead, because I feel like it's not a lad to say bitch open. See, I think mean girls in a way worse. Really, think me one girl. Yeah, true. So it's like mean behavior and that's kind of what we got up the poll that the motten paper wasn't the Australian or something for describing pain. Oh, yes, I'm in religion to the senator who died. Yes, kitchen, kitching, kimberly, kitchen. Yeah, and I remember, like I was like this is sexist droggertry. Yes, which because you're saying a bunch of powerful women in positions of leadership are engage. You mean girl, but get, we mean, because it's like I think mean goal is less druggatry than bitch. Yeah, Bitchy, yeah, but I feel like the girl and is like worse for me for some reason even agree. But you never said the word girl or Lady, and I always fuck up and say chick, girl, a lady. Yes, so through and I do use the word mean, though a lot, I think. Yeah, I used the word nasty. Yes, yeah, and I feel like this is this is absolutely canceling. Myself. I rarely use the word nasty describe male behavior and I often use it describe a woman's behavior. Interesting. I find it like the some element of it that that that's my version of mean girl is, yeah, nasty. Yeah, I think it's because we perceive like when women do, even if it's the same action, we always perceive women to be more like calculated and conniving about it, whereas like men, it's like might be like a clueless, like offhanded, mean comment. It's like the weaponice th exact, whether they're aware of it or not. But I shouldn't make the difference. Yeah, exactly. And the other thing is, like what about. Oh, I just had mine forgotten that. Oh, we called met like if we say that a man is a Dick. HMM, is that like the same? Because I don't have any problem with that. Sorry, that's interesting. Let me think. Can we talk about something else? But I think about that. Um, hang on, what about the sea word? We're not going to say it because I know a lot of people don't like it. Yes, it's very sensitive to the years. But I think what we talked about with the C word is that in Australian culture is perceived very differently to other cod exactly. In America, if you drop the seed bomb, it's like the filthiest thing ever. Yeah, but in Australia, if you could, it could be a term of Endiam and it could be an insult, depending on the way it's wielded. Yeah, but it is a feminized word. But here's the thing. I it actually took me a while to learn what it meant. Oh, really like actually, because you know, a colloquially. Yeah, but I never for some reason, when it said, I never think of the actual meaning. ME. Neither. It's it. That's just not it's not on my mind. Yeah, I don't know why. I think it's because I totally despise that idea and I just disassociate from the word. Yeah, also because I think it's more often used to determine of endearment than anything else. Yeah, I don't use it as determined Dick of Adearmn, but I use it to describe like the worst people, but I never use it to describe a woman. This is disgusting, but it's just come to me. My first boss, old man, used to say I would call you a see, but they're actually useful for something and you're not. Oh my God, that is so fucked up. That's probably the most fucked up thing ever rise in the workplace. Yes, chess, that's so awful. Yeah, and a back to it, but when? Sup Sorry, but I want to go back to your point about calling him in a Dick or Dickhead. Yep, what is the meaning attached to that? Well, I feel like if you're being a if you're if I hold someone a Dick, if I said, oh, he's a bit of a Dick, I would be like I would. It's like he's like conceited and full of himself. Yes, but it's because I think. But then I think dickhead if you're saying someone's being a Dickhead, I think that means in a s I feel like that. I feel like when someone's called a Dickhead, it kind of means that useless or they're just a bit of a fuck with. Yeah, it's not necessarily the same, like conceited, obsessed with themselves. Agree Connotations. I think even the difference between Dick and Dickhead is, yeah, considerable. But also, like why is it that when the words that are part of...

...a woman's body or they reference women and they're so much more derogatory and a specific way to women exactly, whereas the male words aren't? Yeah, I'm trying to think of more whanka. Yeah, it's all. They all kind of have a blurred meaning. Yeah, but I just think they are softer, like Thee said that, like Dick Verse Bitch. Yeah, like bitches just feel so much worse dickhead. When God Waenka Biche Moles, I think about like mole. That's so feminie. Yeah, I mean, like I think about these words in there. They're so aggressive, yes, and they're painting such a particular specific picture. Yeah, of I've got a kind of woman. Yes, and again, yeah, the the words are referencing men, they change meaning depending on the context you use them in and they're very fluid. Yeah, and I think that point to the lack of anger and the lack of critiquedell towards men and women in yeah, I don't know if that's a stretch. Yeah, no, I don't think so. slopped flag. Yeah, mole exactly. The word mole is like the worst, the worst to me, just for myself. Sometimes as a joke it's fun. I don't know why, but like give me the sea word any day. There are just certain words that I'm just like, yeah, yeah, the one for me that that day someone said I was like, was clacker, like up your Clarker. I was like no, no, no, no, what about cocky? Cocky, hate that word. I don't use it, but like I don't like when the words it's so aggressive, like I think the that's one of the more aggressive words that would be attached to men. Yeah, but it's still not that offensive. No, I don't think it's that farrasive. Yeah, that words referring to women are always worse in perception. Yeah, agree, like Dick and Dick had a really low ranking. Yes, agree, agree, and you can you like men call their friends dickheads, like they're be like, Oh, this at all my make so on. So it's bit of a Dickhead. Don't be a DICKHEAD. Yeah, exactly. Whereas if you said, if a woman said something, Oh, my friend is a bit of a bitch, you'd be like, well, are you actually friends? Yeah, like it's it. You can be friends with a decade. It's like you can be friends with the DICKHEAD, but you can't be friends of a bitch. I think that's not. I totally perception. It's like Dick Heads are fixable, tolerable in certain environments. Yes, it's is just like eliminate or die, like, exactly, exactly. Yeah, I think I think I need to stop using the word bitch completely. I've been I again. I rarely use it, but I think that I'm that's going to be my golf the next few months. Were about this podcast and be like what, we're just like throwing it out there. Maybe in it. In like two years we can react, library act to this podcast well and cancel our so yeah, I just think it's one of those things that's like we you can't very rarely. Would you be able to escape high school without using any of those words. I think they're just things that it's like. I guess I just haven't thought about it very much and like subconsciously I just don't really use it very often, but sometimes it does slip out when I'm very angry at somebody. But I will still keep saying dickhead. It's almost decay again, is almost determined of endearment for in Australia. Yeah, so do you think we just started saying the C word? I don't really say the s word. HMM, I don't. I think it's because in my house it was like fuck was a one hundred times a day event. Yea, even though my parents that can you stop springing the podcast. I'm like, what way you think? I got it from my dad. Excuse me, but the C word was always like Oh my God, yeah, why God? Yeah, so I don't really use it. Yeah, I mean I think when I was at school it was like Mad Sea word. It feels so weird to say see word and it's just that we I like before we saw the podcast, I said to Hannah like I'm not going to say it because I know a lot of people. I don't like it yeah, but yeah, I think, like, but it's...

...weird because I say like there's not really connotation attached for me, but for some reason I've just never said the word. I think that what it becomes part of your like vernacular and your vocabulary and use it frequently. Like fuck has no hold. No, like I use it every sentence if I can. Yeah, cause I try not do moment it. But the C word is like I've never practiced it. Yeah, it comes up. When I hear it, I'm not bothered. Yeah, but when I say it I'm like yes, and the thing about fuck is it's like not really about probably fuck. I was like talking. That gets trick to think about fucking. Yes, the thing about fuck is it's not offensive to any specific person or type of person. But okay, what about this? Right, I throw it around and I use it in a range of ways. HMM, whenever I'm like driving and something happens or we're going straight, something goes against my God, fuck me, and my mom always used to be like you don't want that to you. I I'd be like, okay, when I like, when I say that, I mean like Oh, no, yeah, it's why do you like adults still take it in the way the word changes meaning. Yeah, exactly, phase changes, meeting. I don't literally say I would someone come and penetrate me because of this. Yeah, what? What? Because you didn't put your indicator hello, lasn't really bothers me. Yeah, or or fuck, your mom goes. You don't want that. What are you talking about? What a change meeting? I haven't had that experience. Yeah, it's just my mom, I think. How into. I'm sure it's a lot of people, though. Yeah, I think that the other thing is like that. I think is like a pivotal part of this is the difference between women swearing and men swearing. Okay, like how flop like disgusting coming out of our mouth or something. That's what I think. Yeah, yeah, I think that the word, like I think the word bitch coming out of a woman's mouth is is perceived very differently than a man. But even fuck. To me it's better when a woman's asn't that a man agree to meet to us? Yeah, because we're like well, we create it clean, unless you're using a bad way, then no, but I just think, like, yeah, I just think when men, I think it's more social acceptable when men swear, even if it is excessive compared to when women swear like a met. This the amount of times that we have had people ask why we swear so much in the podcast. It's like because that's how we talk if it was just us, and like, I don't care. Should be thanking us. You're in our private conversation. Exactly go out? Can they give us foot all of a month by a Patreona for the pleasure? But I just think that that's still something. It's a little bit that is like surprising that it's not changed yet, to be honest. No, and it's it's the entire end like concept, it's the entire principle of it. Someone that they feel like a bad feminist using it. You think that's like a reflection of feminism? Well, I just think it's because what do you mean exactly? Do you think it's like? Because feminism is like about the equality? Cancel you or no? I think it's like if we're looking for the equality of the sexes and we're using language that specifically derogatory towards women and a word that was designed, I mean the where those designs would be describing a female dog m. We talk about when we use words in our everyday language, even in an endearing way, that are designed to offend and UN of mine women, no matter how we're using them. Is that okay? I mean I think that. I think that the word bitch has been reclaimed already. If you use it in the way len like the bad bitch way, I think that's fine. I don't think that's under money feminism at all, because there are some words that people like, oh well, I'm reclaiming. I'm like, well, it's not yet reclaimed. So it's like so it's a process. Yeah, like aspirational. I mean, I know everything has to be in the process of being reclaimed, but I just think that, like something like the slot, I don't think can be reclaimed. I think people are trying, though, yeah, but...

I just don't see that word ever being successfully reclaimed. Interesting, really, yeah, I think it can be reclaimed and it will be, but like what context do use it in? That's like positive. I didn't. I don't, but that's what I mean. I think bitch has been rebranded. Yeah, in a marketing campaign that has been successful. To rebrand bitch is like bad bitch, boss Bitch. There's an element. It's very girl bossy but, yeah, it's happened where slot is not the same. I think it's more like dressing slutty. Yeah, I know, it's like not an offense. Is Term? Is that endearing? I think if you said it about yourself, I still don't think the perception of that description is positive. No, as you are to as I was talking, I was like, I don't agree. It's that, but it's like I use the word like I would say, like I'm going to dress slutty. Yeah, but it's like still that I know that there's some aspect of that that even saying it feels like a confession or some admitts of guilt. Do you know thing about saying dressing slutty? I'm just like going fully, I've flipped on. My argument is that I don't I still think that it does have a bit of a victim blamey connotation. Yes, yes, that's what I mean. Like I think that slot is so attached to this idea of asking for it or, you know, being loosed and all these derogatory like there is such a like there's an entire category of offensive slurs towards women that derived from slut. Yeah, I don't think bitch has the same. No, no, I think the word is so aggressive. Bitch, slot. Yeah, slide is better. I think that slag is worse for some reason. I think it's because, like when I was at school, everyone was saying slot. I can't wait for the explicit content, warning that apple and spot of by going to give this. We give it to ourselves. I'll do it. Yeah, I flag them as explicit. I thought they did. No, we do it. I love. I was like the robots listening. They were that. Well, it's because you can like, you can say I think you can. If you say like, you can say crap, and I think maybe you say shit once, you can like get away with no e. But if you say fuck even once, it's has to be explicit. I think that's fair. Yeah, me too. Fuck is explicit. Yeah, exactly. To be honest. I think if something has an eon, im like exciting because but obviously not fair. I was actually think, I'm like how many I want to have? Any people listen to this who like want to listen to it in front of their kids in the car? I always think that too, and I never think about it, like I don't really think actively about our content purely on the basis that I don't have children around me, so I don't have to think about like playing something out loud. Yeah, but I understand that other people would be bothered. Yeah, sorry about that. I do think about it sometimes, but I just think like the type of content is like, maybe this is problematic, maybe this is just she's not kids, who doesn't get it, but it's like I don't want to feel like I would be policed on these topics because, like I feel like this is like a one space where we can be openly as angry as we want, and I just feel like it would hold back. And the other thing is it's not just the swearing that we say that I think that people would want to that people would like. That would stop people from listening to what we say in front of back, in front of their kids. I think like some of the a lot of the content is probably like, if you don't want your kids to listen to swearing, you probably wouldn't want to listen to this either. Well, I guess. Are we going to make a pledge to stop saying Bitch Queen? No, Oh, you were wanted to do that the whole time. At no points that I say I was don't do that. It's in the note, the briefing note. You want really like, I think I'm gonna stop, but I was like, Um, you're not gonna stop in we alarity? No, because I don't use it in a way that's offensive towards other women. True, and if we've successfully reclaimed that word, why should I? I don't mean I will still say bad bitch, but if I'm like what are you gonna stop me from Saint Call myself a stupid slag? No, I don't care if you say that, but what the difference in that and Bitch about myself? Oh, no, no, I don't care what you call about yourselves,...

...but I don't refer to other women's bitches. Yeah, so you're already done. I'm already tried. I just don't think I do. I probably, I probably have recently, but I can't recall. Probably about once every two months I get but I think about how am I? Am I a bad bitch, and I like go to my partner like do you think of my bad bitch? And he's like you're not a bad witch. I'm like, ex U me, I am a bad bitch and I like up message at least one person. I feel like, do you think I'm bad baby? You asked me that before. Yes one, so I got once I said yes. I just a poll on my instagram on my close friends, and what do people say? Yes, I am. Do you think that's because they're scared? I mean, if they're scared me, I'm always a bad bitch. That's what's going to say, because if they were scared, that's why they agreed to say yes, even if they don't really believe that, that proves your bad bitch. Sad. Exactly. congratulately and I'll be taking my cast. So we are taking the pact. I think I got from that is I'm already in the back. You're in the pact. Yeah, I don't say slot, I don't say slag. I don't like slot, but I like slag. It feels like it's so British. That's why it's fun. Yeah, I've got no accent, but I still say it. Yes, I but I got to say Mole Mal. I don't know if I don't hear you say them all much. I don't think I said off and either. This is what I think. Okay, in terms of and kind of like to that question is like it's feels anti feminist to say the word Bitch, I think a lot of the time, and obviously I'm not perfect. I already confess that I used it not that long ago. But like, I just think that these are some small things. It's like, I'm not going to be pain to like not use the word bitch to describe another woman. Like, why wouldn't I just stop again? I think you comes back to like these things aren't that hard. Yeah, exactly. It's like resisting and pushing back against like a just a simple task. WHO's not? Is Not? Yes, not, not the biggest ask in the world. Yeah, are you going to so use Dick as much as you want to? Your Heart's contented. I wish we maybe we should come up with some we maybe should coin some new phrases. Oh, yes, scrowed them. That's not new. Well, she was just thinking that asshole is gender neutral. That's a good one. Not tended, but are so usually first to men. Yeah, it just really interesting. What does that mean? It's kind of same as Dickhead. It's more aggressive, though. Yeah, but like, why do we describe men like? I mean, I think it's all the characteristics of an asshole are typically male. Yeah, but that's interesting, isn't it? Constius generally eatral. Yeah, exactly. There's a lot about men, you ask me. Yeah, when we called people all the body body parts, like feet, such a foot, that sounds rude. Breast, that's but that's so like a polomonized. Well, you're going to use it as a positive you are being such a Boob, booby injury. This like. So it's like a it's like a useless word. Yeah, ridiculous, considering how beautiful they are. Yes, and useful. They give life. That is so upsurd, isn't it? It is God, maybe we should just stop doing all of these things. What if we use, we've discussed someone as a clip? Is that a good thing? Yeah, of course, but what if it was like, you're super sensitive, you beard of a click right now. Ha Ha ha, I'm so sorry, funny my family members. So why do we just use all women's body parts? Is means positive thing from now one. Okay, sorry, this very binary again. That's why I think foot. Let's do gender neutral. Your foot, lower back, ass crack. I'm gonna say things. Toe. That's Peter Done. Toe. I mean it. Tobe is obviously an insult. Why? I don't know. Just feel it. What about a finger? Your finger, you. That's so, isn't it? You will. What about a Shnos Pinky? Pinky, giving a pinky. You are a pinky. We've taken this so far. Yeah, I think you stop. This bit has gone on Beh this is incredible. He got more...

...of this, don't, Patria, if you don't find us completely and come back thently, like feating this time. Yeah, all right, bye, bye. If you didn't find us a completely insufferable come back next Wednesday for a new episode. Could also find us on instagram at cheek media co or online cheek Mediacom to day. You. Yes, that's the that's the one.

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