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The Weekly Cheek
The Weekly Cheek

Episode · 4 months ago

74. Is Aussie culture problematic?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, we're talking about the most problematic parts of Australian culture, from heavy drinking to microaggressions.

Find us online at cheekmedia.com.au and on socials @cheekmediaco, and become a Patron for $4 per month!

Hello, I'm Christ and Parison Otto and I'm hard a focuson and where co founders of Cheek mediac this is the weekly Cheek podcast. Before we start this podcast, I would like to acknowledge that we are on stolen aboriginal land here in Brisbane, or me engine. It's the land of the Yaga and table people. Welcome back to the weekly cheek welcome. In today's episode we're going to be talking about the most problematic part of Australian culture, or parts, I should say. Okay, so I put up a pole. What is the most problematic element of Australian culture? And we have a patreon for four dolls a month. You can join our patreons poured us and get onto our close friends list on instagram. And so we've been asking questions on the main instagram stories and talking about a couple on main stories and then we go into detail and provide our most spicy opinions on close friends. So up on to our patreon if you'd like to get onto our close friends list. I'm stretching out my jeans. Give music. Sorry, moving the show now, so it's just trying to get them down my legs. You know, I hope everyone's watching the video for this. I gotta move a choir a little bit. Yeah, just slightly forward. Yeah, perfect, I couldn't do anything whatever. IVING jeans problems. Today I'm being I have this project at where I'm stretching out some genes. That are two small project, but I think they're not abandoned. I cannot believe you're protes as a project. That's fucking hilarious. Yes, we have a project where I got in the shower with jeans. Was I did? Disgusting that I did that. How do it feel? Just as bad as you're a bad grows. Yeah, exactly how you imagine. Um, yes, not quite as bad as I imagined, because they were quite tight, so they're like right on your skin. I feel like like their bottoms, because there were flare jeans. When the bottoms are flapping around, that feels disgusting, but the parts are just got weight, Willie, exactly, the father, just stick on your skin. Not so bad. Really, sorry that I just said that as well, when or I think I'm just saying it w I just needs to see what happens and there's no reaction besides you. So I don't know why I'm doing that. Well, home ever, listening and like my God, okay, okay, so there are a couple of fins. Obviously, obviously have a guess what one of the things was. Drinking and gambling. Yes, Oh, I didn't actually see anyone say gambling. I saw one gambling. When I look, oh, gene, drinking, gambling, there it is. Drinking was a huge one. I don't drink, so I have a different, probably one more extreme, perception of this. But like, as someone who doesn't drink, you are you would be so or I am so aware of how much drinking, yea like, permeates our culture. Like the fact that I don't drink is always like someone was has a fucking problem with it. Sorry when you say like. I want to get into this bit because I find it interesting. What is your like? What are the range of microaggressions you would say that people would express towards you? Like, obviously you say that has a problem with it. What is the what is the range from the least to the most aggressive form of like commentary? I don't think I've had commentary that's that aggressive, but it's more just like people will continuously ask me if I want to go to get go for drinks and like I don't mind if someone's if it's like a group of people like Oh, we're going to get drinks, I will usually go and get like a lemonline bit its or a water, a lemond or something like that. Like I'm not offended that people like on mass invite a group of people to get drinks, including me. But like people who know that I don't drink are like, I have that you and me go to the bar down the road to catch up. I'm like, why would you do that? I would you, why would I want to go there? But it's just me. The other thing, I think one of the worst things is people asking why I don't drink, like there's so many reasons. It's not your business, like, especially...

...people I don't even know. And another bad one is people who give me a drink even though they know I don't want it. To have a drink, like physically. What about offering? Some people do continuously offer even though they don't they know I don't drink, and I think that board is on ignorance and rudeness. Yeah, because I guess in a way it's like people are trained to offer the drink. Yeah, on the basis. That's courteous. Yeah, when someone actively like I would, I would personally never offer you alcohol ever. Know a lot of people do I know, but I guess. I guess it is confusing, like it can be like but it's also a lot of foods and things and and drink. Someone but going and coffee, but I don't get coffee. But it's like it's alcohol. Is completely different to that, because that is, yes, drug, yes, right, that's that's interesting. But people don't say to me, do you want to drink? People say beer wine. I see and I say like M bitters, yeah, and I'm like water, because usually if someone says beer wine, I just say water. But if someone said would you like a drink, I would say, yeah, I'd like a lemonline bitters. Yeah, that's what I usually want to be one of those instances I just say water to like I guess kind of make a point that it's like, I don't drink and you know that, so why you offering me beer wine? Yeah, the other thing, oh, like this is a bit of a harder one and I kind of get it. But like when I was younger and like every like for everyone, all they did for birthdays is like pre drinks and then go out. Is like people continuously inviting me to those which I get it. Like I feel like a lot of people think it's rude to not in. Like could be rude to not invite me. But then what I'm like, Oh, like, I'll probably come for the start with an all a sleeping like, oh my God, why? Why aren't you coming to the club's? Like why are you coming to the valley? Like why the fuck would I want to go there? Like, why would I want to go to the valley sober? This is really random. I haven't expresses to you how a dream last week that I had a hens party. Outrageous, right, because I wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't pers and you know what, if you've had one anchor fucked, it's just very out of character for you. Yes, so this dream I had a Hans Party and I was in the dream like so considered about what I was going to do for you, my queen, and I was like she would hate it, but if I don't invite her, that is so rude. This is my queen. And then I just thought I would not invite you. Yeah, thank you, because that I would be disrespectful to invite you to that. Yes, right, if I was going to have fun. Yeah, that's how I felt. If the other thing is because some usually I invite to those things. It's like when you're invited, it's like, well, I kind of have to go now. Well, this is other things. It's like sometimes I say to you in certain instances, like I am going to invite you, but like do not go, and informing you that I'm going, but it I I it's one of those things where like out of friend talk to me recently about an issue they were having with two of their close friends and they were like, I just don't know if I'd being out of line, and this is about an issue with going out somewhere, and I sort of said like well, have you ever communicated what how you want to be communicated with? And I think that's the question with something like this. Some people would always want to be invited and wouldn't feel bad saying no. Yeah, but I think, because I think it's like there isn't an expected, like template proform of thing of like how that should be treated and how someone who doesn't drink wants to be treated, if it's they want to be treated exactly the same as someone who does drink, or if they want to be acknowledged, and it'd be a very aware that you don't drink. So like when someone says the do you want a beer, a one, that's just stupid. Yeah, because you should be asking everyone do you want to drink? It's the inclusive, the Inter sacclusive thing to say yeah, but I can understand that some people would be confused. I'm sure you undersend this too, but like about how to go about it. But I think just asking is not that difficult. Yeah, like I say, do you like? Would you prefer to be I try to be as like you tell me. Yeah, but then I also don't want to be invited. But sometimes you're like no. Sometimes I invite something. I'm like, Gosh, she's gonna fucking mape this, and you're like no, I'm seriously not. I'm like your head, no, are you secretly like you evil? Why? You were? Yeah, and the other thing is like, if people...

...know me, they know that I prefer not to be invited. Yeah. Well, like I actually like when people say, like, I'm going to this thing, like you would hate it, so I haven't invited you. Yeah, and then that's what I try. Is that fine? And I'm like Oh, thank you, that's a relief. Yeah, that's what I try to do. I love when people say to me about events and the like, you don't have to come. I'm like yes, thank you for saying that. It's so funny because I told you a couple times that, like, I've been at like parties of things, of people been like you should really bring Christian and I flut said of the person, Kristen will never ever come to this. I literally will be like Christ and will never, I will never bring kristen, like I don't want them to ever have this idea that that will happen. So, like, I only one time. I feel flat out. I'm like no, and they're like come on, and I'm like I don't think you know a single thing about Christian and it's not about them. No, it's about what you enjoy exactly. And so the only people take it offensively and it's like but party culture and drinking culture isn't for everyone exact. You can like drinking and not like nightclubs. You can like nightclubs are not like drinking. Yeah, rare. Well, it's like you have some people they're like not into drinking, but they are into drugs. Yes, like I said, something for everybody. There is something for everybody. Some people like water exactly. Yeah, some people don't like fizzy, but I think it can absolutely come with a timeline for people as well. Like I think that, you know, my mom wasn't ever a massive drinker, but she's always been like a lightway. She'll have one wine. I'd be like, I can't down my shoes. Someone else. She'll hate hearing this that that did happen in your twelve. I came home and she was like had I don't like a concert. One of the lights runs on. It was like, I don't know what to do and I was like say there. She did like two glasses of wine. That like a one of those afternoon where they just talked about fucking topware or Andy or something. Anyway, that was really funny, hilarious. I think the other thing is my point with that was it's a lifestyle changed. Like my mom was ever a big drinker, but she did drink and then, when you know, five years ago she just stopped drinking. She had one light beer overseason was I couldn't finish it and I was like wow, queen, that's incredible. Well, I think the other thing is for me, because I just stop drinking because I didn't really like it anymore. Like it's made me really cognizant of how difficult it would be, if you will, like if you were, you know, an alcoholic or had problematic drinking habits and you actively went out, like sought to become sober. Yes, like it's fucked up. Oh, like, it's annoying enough for me and there's no act, no, like. I mean the reason is just I don't I don't like it. It was so I don't know if his so goes off course a bit, but I note how the more comfortable and more the longer we've been drinking, for the way the rules fade away and the boundaries change. Yeah, so like, for example, probably up until two years ago, if I was going to drive anywhere, I would not have a mouthful of alcohol. M I would just I was very, very hyper aware at all times of how much I was drinking and if I knew I had to drive that day, in the next twenty four hours, I would not touch a drink. Yeah, and then you know, you're working full time, you're in your work somewhere. Like I've worked in multiple workplaces where drinking has been quite a big part of the culture outside of work. I after on a Friday afternoon, blah, blah, and then you get into like a one or two drinks and you can in the hours and then your boundaries change and the goal post change. And that's a really small example, but I think that that can happen wheres. It can be the opposite. Someone can start drinking heavily at union and sort of have no, I whens, for the rules or social what social acceptable and do really the wrong thing when they get drunk and become a the worst version of themselves. Yeah, and as they get older they go out of that. But I think our habits can really change and our personal rules and values change when we drink. Yeah, exactly. There are a lot of people in this country who should not drink. Agree, and I think that the worst part about one of the worst parts about alcohol is that it diverges so significantly from the people we are every day. Yeah, and I actually don't like and often when people bring this up I don't really comment or I had just agree because I don't want to talk about it. But I actually don't like the whole saying like it's truth serum or...

...like drunk words speak sober thoughts or whatever, because I don't think that's true. I mean I think that people become this entirely different version of their personality. Pie. Yeah, and it's either the it can be the worst and it can be a better version of themselves. It really depends on the person and I think that the way that happens is dangerous. Like, I think either way is dangerous. Agree. Agree. No, I don't. And as a big drinker, I think it is so fucked for me to talk about it like that. But I think you're a big drinker, queen. Really that's interesting. I guess that. How many people we know who drinks so much more than no, I know. But like, if we're looking at what should the what the measure should be, I should be a big drinker, I guess, but in Australian culture I'm not. But like heavy, heavy drinker is like seven drinks a week every week. Yeah, true, according to medical stuff. Yeah, I remember like when I did drinking, union doctors would be like are you a big drinker, and I'm like how much does that? Yeah, and they'll be always like seven drinks a week, but not all on the same day. I'd be like that's the thing. I think we're all lying to doctors. Then, like I remembering to the doctor like Asian n turn. They asked and I was like do you want the real number, and I said it and they will a cool, I know. I mean, Uni, what the fuck exactly? What do you expect? Like it again. It's just it's society, like what do you fucking except something that's confusing is seven drinks a week to a doctor is a lot. I've ever been to a bar? How many drinks do they recognize? They're serving one person exactly, exactly, and like when I was drinking, it would be at least like ten standards before we went out. Oh, absolutely lie. And also, like you can auder cocktails by the jug, exactly, a Lou hello, everything's a double or triple shot. I just think that every like so like social outings just to revolve around I'll cahol in this country and it's problematic. Absolutely agree. Another one of the big ones racism, obviously, obviously, and someone, and I've few of these. I did talk about on our close friends story, but I will kind of like sum up, because I think some of them are quite interesting, cause a lot of people just said racism. Agree, obviously. Some people said casual racism, which I think is like quite inherently Australian, which I think is it fucked up thing to say, but like casual racism and casual sexism is the way that Australians get away with being like oh well's just a bit of fun, that's not being serious and like that's what perpetuates like, you know, domestic violence and violence against people of Color and continued discrimination. Another thing that someone said and I was like, Oh my God, that is so smart, not understanding that all non first nations people are immigrants. I saw that one crazy. I mean that's so it's crazy. It's obvious. It's a very good take, I think. Well, it's like famously pulling hands and claimed she was averaginal because she was born here. I know she's so fucking but I think that was a that was a really interesting one, because it's like, and I talked about this one close friends through so apology, so I'm just repeating this, but like everyone is, everyone who lives in this country is either first and age is or has been an immigrant at some stage and they're like ancestry, ancestry. It's like, what does that word? How is it coming? You know, when you're a better company right there. Yeah, but I think that if people actually got that through their six skulls, Australia would be a much better place. Absolutely, because also then, like the way that we treat refugees and people seeking asylum. It's like hello, we're all immigrants. If you're like a white Australian, you're Ann fucking immigrant. I mean, just comes down racism. Really, it's not that complex. It should also be mentioned that, like a lot of people said, and I think it is like a subsect of racism, is particularly our racism towards first nations people. Yeah, and like the rasure of the true history of Australia and just like these attitudes that we as Australians have, as wide Australians have, towards first nations people and culture is incredibly fucked up. And the other thing I want to mention on the racism thinks, I think goes hand in hand, is like this idea...

...that, as shoting is like multi contra multicultural country, like we use that as a marketing term. Multicultural, like fucking multicultural, racist as far. But what's interesting about that is, like we're clemming multicultural when it suits us in it terms of tourism and marketing. Absolutely, but being racist doesn't negate the facking multicultural. It negates the fact that we support the fact that we're multicultural. True, yes, so it's like we're still multicultural, but the inherent problem is that the white people of this country fucking resent anyone of a different culture. Yeah, so, you know, it's when it benefits us in terms of economic value that might bring with, you know, to tourism, food, culture, Blah, blah, us. Why people have none of it. Culture not existent, non existent. But it's interesting because I feel like all of these responses, yeah, are inherently masculine traits. Yes, sport, someone actually said Man, just the joke. Also, people said toxic masculinity. Yeah, but it's in it. Sport was a big one too, wasn't it? Yeah, don't like. It's more like our attitude towards sport, like our obsession with it. I don't care about sport and, like other Australians Tall Poppy Syndrome. Someone has said that is extremely interesting and accurate. Yeah, it's so. We'd watching people like Australians turn on celebrity some time and on our own. It's very confusing. I think it comes with our down to Earth, laid back vibe. Yeah, which is also sinister, I find yes, we're not. No, I think that to arest like to come here and be like wow, you guys are so relaxed and it's like no, we literally all hate each other. Yeah, exactly what, because I think that it's interesting to have this stereotype of like the chill vibe surfer, like Sporty, you know, we're all really calm, cool, collected and far away from the rest of the world. But what actually is is just it's insidious casual sex and casual racism and probably one of the like, I think, against all global measures. We are more racist and sexes in the rest of the world. Yes, and it's like Oh, yeah, but we're really, you know, laid back. As he's very colloquial, it's like no, you just have no regard for what's socially acceptable. Exactly. If I can hate it, and you know, the other thing is like that, like laid back, like cool surfer vibe is like, you know, obviously talking about the beaches, and I can only took at the beaches in like the southeast Queensland and like northern New South Wells territory, because that's where I have grown up and live. Is, I just feel like the people who you point to them like, oh, like the cool at back Surf Surf Ford dudes. It's either like they're always on one end of the political spectrum whatever, and so it's like they are not fucking relaxed at all. These people are like either Alan Jones level conservative, bigoted or green. He's through and through. Exactly who were passionate about their cause either way, and often it's very much environmental. Is She's climate change because it impacts the fucking sport exactly, exactly. So I think that's interesting. One of them, which I can't find at the moment, we said there she'll be right. Narrative. Oh, okay, yeah, it's not really all right, and know that's what actually talked about this line in stories. I was like, she won't be right. People always use it to like get out of a serious talk, like conversations like about politics and stuff. It's like I should be right, but she absolutely will not be right. We're really contradictory exactly, because all of these things are actually fighting each other. Yes, but they asked also inherently ozzy. This is interesting and this might relate to this. I heard the phrase capping out yesterday when I was at dinner, and capping it out refers to when a point, that when you reach a point in a debate or conversation with someone where they no longer have the ability to fight back about a thing you're talking about, so they carp out and go to and point something else. Okay, and that gives me these vibes like you can debate and disagree to a point...

...and then it she'll be right as soon as the other as the it's usually an ozzy man. Yeah, can't continue to debate policy or climate change or something specific. It's she'll be right, or it becomes casual racism, sexism, stereotyping. Yeah, it's like all these things be enter the enter at the point of I no longer have an argument. Yes, exactly, and I think that that yeah, Ye're right, she won't be right. She is very, very wrong, especially in this day and age. This one's bit different. The Ozzy bloke is useless. Needs a good sheler to sort him out. Holy Shit, my mother tried to peddle this at me once, really, two years ago. Oh No, I got an embarrassing I got really drunk on boxing day in my small hometown in central West New South Wales and I was like absolutely obliterated, like it was really embarrassing, one of the most embarrassing times. Anyway, I got home and my mum mentioned something about, you know, short skirts. We had a bit of a brawl about short skirts, women asking for it, you know the vibes. Anyway, she ended up saying something like but you know, a good woman can change a devil man. Oh and I was really drink and my dad, my brother, was cooking me a baking and exam which in the kitchen and he just turned. My mom was like enough to stop, stop, stop, and I just like I like I remember having like Glassy eyes and you know when you're just like a bit blurry, and I just turned to her like and it was just like when I'm like, I cannot even express what happened from there. Oh God. But I think there is this narrative of like you need a good woman to, you know, bring a man down. And it's also it's also this idea that we're in some way stealing a man whose prime or locking him down. But isn't there this idea of like possession and imprisonment of that as well? Yes, like that's what I mean. Like I think that when we paddle this idea, it's like yet the ball and chain an argument, that ball and chain arguments on an argument's term. Yeah, but I find that really fucked, like it's one of the most toxic parts of monogamous culture as well. It is like this idea that a woman is like settling a man, yeah, and taking him out of some sort of spotlight or peak. Yeah, that's Ferrell. I am. So my partner was go he was overseats somewhere and he was like in hostel and he met this woman who is from who was from New Zealand and so that he wasn't in New Zealand, they were both traveling and this woman was what she had lived in Australia for a while and she was like I just find like the culture around Ozzy relationships is really problematic, like in a straight relationship. She said, in New Zealand it's like you and your partner are like partners, your best friends. You're like, you know, a unit in terms of like you want to spend time with each other. Crazy concept, Diana, but she said in Australia the culture is always like the men and is always trying to like get away and like go and talk, to see the boys and like have a boys night and like get out of the home that he has sign shares. Yeah, and she's like it's just really not like that in in New Zealand it's like we go out with our partners and like it's a group thing. It's not like the men trying to like escape the woman for one night. Yeah, fucked. Do you think that women petal that? Um? Yeah, but I think it probably. I mean because we live in a patriarchal society. I think that it came from the men and then women are like bread to believe it as well as men, and then women have their own take on it. I think yeah, because it's like I think the women it's either you either go one way, whether you're way, you're like fighting your man. Hate this so much like try miners stop your man from going to like boy science and things like...

...that, or you go the other way and you're like Oh, it's good to get him out of my hair for a few hours. You don't have many options exactly. But I think it's just incredibly toxic to like everybody. Yeah, no matter whether you're in the really in a relationship or not. Misogyny was in there as well. Obviously, self selfdeprecation to the point of low self worth and eventually self loathing. I think that comes from like the flip side of talkous lobby syndrome. Agree, they're two sides of the coin exactly, and I absolutely think we're all guilty of it. I think that shitting on yourself is promoted in Australian culture. Yeah, and I think that. I think it comes from there's an element of feminism there where for women it's not acceptable to promote yourself and it's seen as, you know, being self obsessed or entitled, all of these sorts of things. But I think there is. It's really dangerous the way that we shit on people for liking themselves. Yeah, at a very baseline level agree, although I do think in Australia women and men both get it. Like probably worse, but I think that. But I think the men should be bullied. Wei Am today. Sometimes I see men on tinder or like on Ticktock, and I think they shouldn't believe more as a child, though. They wouldn't have posted this if that was the case. You can tell the ones who aren't for sure, yeah, that there's no such thing as mental illness and people should just suck it up. I've salutely. I think that's a huge I'm sorry, I don't agree with the C Ay should had not pretty death. No, I think that mentally, snowflake, the perception of mental health in this country is probably the worst in some of the worst in the world. Yeah, I but but also, like, I think every one of US struggles with it. Yeah, I have not. So, I mean I don't have the you know, I'm not. I'm not stupid duper mentally healthy, but I've never had a mental health ses, a diagnosis or like, I've never been to see a doctor for a particular diagnosis. But I think that, you know, even when I try to be very aware and empathetic and understanding about mental health issues, but I think we're all guilty, especially because Australians are very like work ethic based. Yeah, and I think the one we see someone who's not like pulling their weight, regardless of what the if they are do have a mental health diagnosis or something's going wrong, we are we see it as an excuse. Yeah, and we would blame on them and we, I think, Judge Them. Yeah, I think that like it's it's kind of like casual sexism and racism and things. Is that, when we haven't experience it ourselves, we really struggle to perceive it and understand it, and I know how to weigh it. Yeah, as well, like in friendships, in work environments, like, I think it's something that's going to take a long time to normalize and understand. Agree, a lot more to learn. I saw this tex stock. I don't know if I send it to you. It was like men be like, may all suicide rates are so high, and then bully each other for breathing in a gay way. Yeah, and I think that is quite it was an I think that male suicide rates is and is often, which is a really fucked up thing, which, but it's true, is used as an argument against feminism. Yes, because it's like we're talking about women's rights in like. Well, what about male suicide rates? It's like, do you realize that that is perpetuated by the Patriarch? This is exact. This is one of the biggest points, I think, and this is central to Jordan Peterson's view of why general quality doesn't exist is that doesn't yeah, it doesn't. We are so silly, cancel our entire company. But I think like there's this the two central things that a lot of right wing men argue is that men are the highest like violence is perpetrated agatest men and they are incarcerated at a higher rate than women, and that male suicide is much more common than women's committing suicide. Right, who are the pet who were the perpetuators? Yeah, and this comes back to our argument a few weeks ago about men being oppressed. Yes, can you label one group is both the oppressed or and the and...

...the oppressed? Not Really, but I think it's more nuance than that. Right, but I think it does come back to like we can't talk about and this is harsh, but I get so fucking sick of every year gets like men's mental health awareness month and every man is like taking a Selfie with the moe they're growing or bucking, you know that they put a certain symbolop with their hands and they're like, I challenge these people to do it. They're all happy to do on Instagram or facebook post. Yeah, but they're the ones that are calling someone a pussy or a big itch or week or is telling they fucking run like a girl or playfooty like a girl or tackle like a girl. Yeah, and bullying men for doing anything that is an hypermaskal. And all the fucking time. Exactly. You're the one. What's Your Locker Room Chat? What do you talk to your friends about? Do more than fucking posting yourself because it suits your agender on the day. Exactly, really gets to me. Yeah, me too, I agree. And also I think that, like it's just the people, the types of people who are like that, and I'm like, obviously I support mental men's mental health, clearly, but I think the people who are doing that are also the ones who they will only care about an issue if it is solely affecting men. Yeah, but it also it gives the vibes of like we cannot have the rise of women because that's at the expensive men. Exactly. It's like the only mind. That said, the expensive men is men. If you didn't find us a completely insufferable come back next Wednesday for a new episode. Could also find us on instagram at cheek media co or online cheek Mediacom to date you. Yes, Buffalo, that's the one.

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