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The Weekly Cheek
The Weekly Cheek

Episode · 5 months ago

76. ARE U OKAY? Talking activist burnout

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, we're talking about activist burn out, particularly in the wake of the federal election. Are you okay? Are we okay? Is anyone okay? It's too soon to say.

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Hello, I'm Christ and Parison Otto and I'm had a Ferguson and where co founders at Cheek Media Go. This is the weekly Cheek podcast. Before we start this episode, I would like to acknowledge that we are on stolen lands of the Yaggo and terable people. This land was never seated and was and always will be, aboriginal land. Welcome back to the weekly cheek welcome. So today we're going to be talking about activists burnout, which is what's happened to us yes wow, we are bent the fuck out. Actually feel so much better today for some reason. Well, everyone, Christ and I I have some news. ha ha ha ha, ha ha ha. We we are training from the Bridge to Brisbane at the end of August. I'm not a runner. Would you call yourself a run on? No, absolutely no. I fucking hate running. We ran five case yesterday. I actually, and this is a big deal, because I've I don't think I've run outdoors since school. Yeah, I just don't like running in public. I've never been a runner. I hate running. I've been running on a tread, not a practice, which is apparently way worse because it's just way more boring. So yesterday after work we were like we're going to run five case. Yeah, we pretty much got close running whole five case. You were stronger than me, but we ran basically five kilometers yesterday. Yeah, we're training up to zen and honestly, we were in pretty much the past two weeks I think we've been the worst we've ever been. Yeah, probably in terms of burnout, in terms of exhaustion, stress, just being totally hung over from the election. Now Alcohol Way, just in a way. And afterward for the run last night, it was like our world's changed. Yeah, I felt so powerful, I felt like I was on drugs. Me Too. Yeah, the run is high. Is Actually Real. Yeah, it's really annoying, like I've whatever people say that. I'm like, can you please go fuck yourself? Yeah, but it's actually true, which is annoying to me. I know that is because it means you have to run to get it. And you know, and that's the thing about running, the worst part is the run. Yeah, every minute of running is suffering to me and I don't know if I'll ever change that, but I'm happy to try. Yeah, so anyway. So, anyway, then the last twelve hours we're kind of ware here from zero to a hundred, completely hell. That to ignore everything. Activist Burnutch, what is that crazy talk? The way I was like seeing last night, like I could have been on out of all I think I've got a hundred messages from you which like I've planned out a marathon, I've booked our schedule for the next year. I've sent twelve emails. Hope you like them, and I was like, we should talk about it. I was acutely aware of that as I was tired. It was hilarious because I was like, Queen, I don't think we should do that thing you just agreed to do, and you were like sorry, actually ill, but then I agree. I was like sorry, we probably shouldn't anyway. anyways. Anyway, you know, I couldn't call us because I was also runners higher, but I was instead at a pub eating hot chips. So that's a bit different for you. Were doing it when you get when I sat in the message to you, I was like things are going on for her, so good for her. That's what I thought. I was sitting on my couch. T just HAP to be tapping on the whilst watching Netflix, that's nice, and Eating Rainbow Snake, but anyway, we both woke up this morning rejuvenated and now we realize we have to continue running because it worked. Oh okay, let's get into it. Okay, so I'm going to start with the question box. Yes, the so put up a pole and instagram stories achieve me to curve. You Mom following us there. And the question was basically like activists burnout thoughts. So I thought...

I would read some interesting ones. One that I found quite interesting was how to handle anxiety that comes from feeling like you're not informed when you log off checkout. I feel like this. I felt like this all the past week especially, and I think that it stems from particularly at the moment, now that the Oban easy government is in power. I think there is this deep fear and this is something probably go to talk about another podcast about. You know, one of the strongest things that activism and advocacy is when a bad government or there is a power and balance or something that terrible is happening to marginalized groups, there is a stronger push and a stronger voice in the community and people become more engaged and I think we inherently become just more politically active and and willing to do the work and the my deepest fear about the Labor government being voted in and having a really great Greens present independence, independent presence in parliament is that we take our foot off the pedal. Yeah, and I think that that's something that, you know, can lead to not caring. We can go back into place and we shift more moderate or more further to the right purely because we're not seeing such controversy. So our care level immediately declines, regardless of whether we want it to or not. Yeah, so, like it seems less dire post election like the last week. I know the Alban easy government has done great things. I know I'm excited to see when they get into Canberra and what's going on. They announced the ministry. Then now it's cabinet Bubba Blah, and I just didn't know what to say. I just wanted to log off and have a few days. Yeah, but I felt like, especially with cheek like that's just not possible and that's not doing everything that we, I. Want to be doing for our followers. Right. In the same sense, I guess it's worse when you know the Morriston government was, you know, at its peak controversy all these bad things were happening. There were days where I was like, I fuck you, can't open the TAB, I can't open the news tab, I can't do it, and you feel like every moment that you're not doing it is a waste or that you're you're you're living in your own privilege and being ignorantcause I think that's one of our biggest messages, is like vote or support people that are less privilege than you and use your voice in the interest of those that have a harder time than you. And when you log off, it feels like you're ignoring those people, that you're sitting in privilege, and that's not true. It can be if you do it all the time, but it's healthy to log off. That's my whole opinion on this. Yeah, I agree with you what you said. As someone has said, everyone is so cooked right now. Hey, it seems like I found it seems like that is the case. This person says it's exhausting sharing bits of yourself constantly. I personally don't feel that. I mean, I don't feel that either. I feel more empowered than ever because, unfortunately, and this is part of our privilege, like the fact of the matter is at the end of the day, sometimes cheek is hard and sometimes we hear things and receive feedback that we don't want to right. But the thing that I always feel is just so privilege that people give a fuck about what I'm saying. Yes, and I hope I feel like that for a really long time, but...

...like for people to follow us and for people to constantly be sort of assuring us that they're enjoying the content in some way or another is just like the greatest privilege to me. It's no, I want to value that and live in that for as long as possible and it shouldn't be an ego trip and that's bad in some ways. Like I know that what we're doing is activism and advocacy and providing information and fun and engagement to politics and big issues, but like the fact that people want to hear our opinions is always going to be something I'm grateful for. Yeah, and the other thing is there is very rarely a time when I have an opinion that's like, Oh, I've never heard anyone talk about this. Like sometimes I do say things that I'm like, I don't hear people talking about this much. I never think that I'm the first Onson to ever think of an opinion and I think that for me makes me feel like when people, even when we do get backlash and things that we say, I'm like, well, it's not about me. No, and I think the other thing that we talk about a lot is, you know, sometimes I've had friends and people we don't know sort of stay like when I hear an opinion from cheek, like that's my starting point and like that's like the be all and end all, and I'm like that's not all we want. No, because we do want to be a starting point, but I don't want you to take Cheek as Gospel. I never want my opinion to be taken as the fucking Bible of politics and left opinions. It's not it and I don't think it is. Yeah, I want to be proven wrong and I want to be challenged. Sometimes the way it's done I don't agree with, because I would always want to bring a bit of compassion to those conversations, but most of the time people are just like, I don't let you know, fucking thank you, you know. But the other thing is, and I think this is to do with like who we are as people, is like although I guess maybe I think you share a bit more personal information on Cheek. Yes, I am that person bed to you, but but you like to do that. Yes, that's the thing, like I think, and I'm like, obviously I'm not discounting what this person said, because obviously that's how they feel if you're like sharing parts of yourself. But I think that for us we do have like quite clear boundaries on like what we talk about on cheek, because she is not about our lives. No, it's not. It's very separate to our lives and there's a lot of things we don't share on cheek. Yeah, but the thing is, like, you know, quite a few cheek followers follow us personally. I'm comfortable with that because, again, like it's still instagram. parasocial relationships are really strange. Yeah, like sometimes I've got a message from someone and be chanting to a follower and it's like this is interesting because I actually don't know anything about you and you know quite a lot about me. If you listen to the PODCAST, you know a lot more than if you thoughts on instagram. Yeah, but I think there's something weird about the fact that when we're talking on the podcast. I know it's going out to people, but it doesn't really feel like it. Like when when this conversation, it's just me having a conversation with you. Yeah, but that's that's the brand, that's the VIBE. It's very authentic to us, like if this is not fake, but you can't put a microphone and headphones on someone and say it's exactly the same, exactly. Anyone understands that exactly? It's still like, in a sense, public speaking. Yeah, and we are talking to you. Yeah, we're not talking to each other right now. No, really, we wouldn't be having this conversation without this. No, it would be weird. Actually, instead of so going, instead we'd be going. Guess what, I'm having the weirdest discharge. Well, a lot of our on the podcast is US recounting conversations and things that will come up in...

...now. But obviously you understand whenever you're call the conversation with a friend, you kind of change something, sometimes exactly this person says. I think burnout is going to be a major thing over the next twelve months. While I do agree, I think that it's probably been a major thing for the last couple of years, but I think this burnout again stems from like taking your foot off the pedal because you feel you can. Yeah, but for me it's like I want to continue to give a fuck, which means where we actually need to raise the bar and the standard kind of like, you know, ourban is the governments, and we'll mention this in another podcast. You know, they put the flags at the press conference, as they yet the Torru straight under flag and the OBRIGINAL flag. HMM, and it's like that's amazing and of course we want to celebrate that moment, but it's like fuck, that's where we're at. Yeah, mentally, that is where we're at. Yeah, is like that is huge. Yeah, and that's a beautiful thing and that's something that should be celebrated, but it's also like I'm ready to step up and hit into a new gear here and say like okay, refugee policy, bubble, but let's go, let's go, let's go. Yeah, I think when it comes to burnout, it's like you need to give yourself the time, but make sure that you're not discounting or lowering the bar and and just sitting comfortably, because that's not like we've pushed so hard. Yeah, we need to just kick into a new gear now, and that's real. That's really hard with this hangover, I think exactly. And like I was, and I've told Han of this at the time, I've I've bounced back, so it's not a serious now to me is I was sitting in a meeting last week and like probably, yeah, at the worst of my like election and hangover, and my election hangover like the the way that burnout kind of presents to me is inability to do small tasks, like they have been emails that I've had to send and things that have had to do that I'm just like I can't, I can't do it, I cannot pussly, but because I'm still like doing the stuff that I have to do, but it's just the stuff that I'm like, well, that's not urgent. So I'm just like not going to do it, but I'm going to think about it every second of every day, even though it take me two minutes, I just not can't do it anyway. So I'm sitting in this meeting, we're talking about politics and it's kind of the vibe is kind of like, Oh my God, we get to call the Morrison government, the former government how exciting and everyone's like Yay, and every time someone says former government, everyone's like Woohoo, and I was like, Oh my God, we are it. Things are still just as fucked as they were a few weeks ago, though, like we cannot forget that. No, and the the thing for me is, like I do truly believe that. Is it really important not to forget that? But also I'm like, Oh my God, can I not just like be happy for one fucking second, because I'm like, oh Yay, like doing the Woo Whoo, eating out little like time, little delicious cupcakes of a different colors, and I'm like, but it's not, like we're not done. What do we actually I don't know. It's it. It's a hard place to be, to be between like we absolutely should be celebrating that Australia overwhelmingly voted out this the coalition because they lost, and I know everyone's talking about like how Labor didn't gain that many seats. The coalition lost a shitloads of seats and to me that is the...

...win. How many people said absolutely not, I'm done with you, and then celebrating that? It's really exciting to feel like so many people are on the same page as you and agree that the coalition government as it was was like not acceptable, and we can be happy about that, but also realizing that, like, I mean, even if everything the Labor governments, they getting do everything they say they're going to do, like, it's still not it's going to take a while, like things are still not good. Yeah, and that balance is like really difficult for me. Burn out wise, yeah, because I'm like, Oh my God, still so much to do. I'm a guy, just need a quick break. Do I have time for a break? No, yeah's always time for a bake. To be honest, there's always time for a break, she says with privilege. No, no. But I think the other thing that we're probably not acknowledging or and it needs to be spoken about when it comes to this burnout idea, is like what we engage in every day, and this is this is terrible and I hate it, but it's very girl boss Hustle culture behavior. Yeah, hundred percent. Like I mean, and I said I was happy to talk about this at least in a little bit of detail, of home, like an itch a personal things. But like, when I think about the last six months, I have moved house, broken up with a long term partner, I have started a new job, I have we have gained Twentyzero followers and we've had the election. And that's just like a lot of things to happen to someone in six months, right, and I think it's absolutely a sign of mental health decline. Right, that's a fact. But the thing for me is the election was everything. MMM, I couldn't give a fuck about anything else happening in my life. Yeah, someone died in my family, I haven't seen my parents, like it's just been like a bit all over the place, right, but everything for me hung on the election, MMM, with cheek. It was like we're doing probably three hours of work a day, I reckon, making content, talking about content, recording podcast, when the time that we spent thinking about it, at the time I spend thinking about is probably six hours a day. Yeah, we were doing campaigning for hours a day and we were working our normal jobs as well. And like, everything for me was just like I didn't my personal life just fell away in my mind, like all I gave a fuck about was the election. And I think the thing is is that I wasn't bothered. I was, and this is disgusting, I was thriving in a month for the election. We're doing fourteen to six nowadays, and I was like happier than I've been all year. Like I was just like this is the best thing ever. Like, yeah, we were getting up at five am, going on the roadside, doing all this sort of shit, and I was like this is just like, I mean, I was exhausted and that's terrible and it was total girlbosh Shit. Right, yeah, but I loved it and I felt like I was busy. I love being busy. I I'm someone WHO's extroverted to the point where if I sit by myself in a room for two hours, it's like things are going wrong, exactly going wrong. Right. So I can't be left alone, like I'm a small dog, right, but actually I'm six foot two, just a large dog, I.

Yeah, but a large I'm not a great day like dud maybe a great dame puppy. Yeah, so true. Okay, so the problem for me and the total burnout actually occurred when we won. Yeah, and when we want under I'm not associating myself a label. When we won, right, yeah, when they lost, yes, when they lost, yeah, Sunday, happiest day of the year. Yeah, after I as glorious. But my and the biggest issue was last weekend. So what we're according two weeks from the election? MMM, so last weekend, one week after the election, I decided not to book anything in. I was like, I'm not doing anything, so we can I'm relaxing, and that was pretty much the worst thing I could have done. I basically was like the lowest I've been in years. Right, and it's funny because it's like what it what does that mean? You know, when talk about burnout, it's like keeping keeping busy keeps us together because we just have to do things, and then we're left alone at all kind of crumbles, and that's what happens to me. That's just my personal experience. But so this week has been a major wake up call that maybe I wasn't well, and then I need to pick that up and like reevaluate, because I put everything into this one event. Yeah, and then when I didn't have that anymore, it didn't even feel like we'd want anymore, because I was just like what now? Yeah, especially with a lot of people saying like well, what are you going to do? A cheek now, and it's like fucking excuse me, I know we do a lot of anyway, that's a bit of a rush. That's a bit of a source spot, because it's just like, is that all we do? Know, like we're going to hold the new government to account, we're going to look at the world more broadly, we're going to step outside the box and do more that we've already been doing, but in this whole time. Yeah, and so obviously at the point of frustration. Yeah, I think it's important to talk about all this because, like, think about cheek is. It is your thing as much as it's our thing, and I like to talk to our follows about and be like well, you know, tell us what you want, but don't come to me and say what are you gonna do now? Yeah, like that's ridiculous. Yeah, anyway, bit hurtful. Yeah, like it. Person I don't know why did raise my arm the others power. The other thing is that I found so funny because you're so extra and I'm so introverted. During the election, our like coping mechanisms switched so like there were times during the election where Hannah just disappeared and I was like where is she? Not physically like. I mean you were resting to my message wet and it was like active three hours ago and I was like where the fuck it? But that's so weird. And and can I say everyone, I didn't know what I was doing through these periods of time. So like Christ would like where did you go clean and I'd be like what do you mean? Yeah, and I couldn't recall. It was like that blacked out or something. Yeah, I had socially black that. I was like, I switched off my brain. Didn't even know how that's possible. It was so weird because you just like retreated and you're alone a lot, and I was like, why is he on this bunding? Did Me? I need to talk the Sun, like but I feel like I was like, must have been doing cheek stuff or like having a nap or something. But it was really strange because, but we went to this event together and honestly, one of our common things is because we work together and do cheek together. Is it when we go to events, Christen's like great, you're here, so I can smoke bomb or you can just go and do the thing and I'll just, you know, yeah, which is not actually the reality. Often you're the one introducing me to people and then I'm like, I'm going to make a friend here now, yeah, be quite. You don't like it's because I'm good at networking and you're...

...good at socializing. That's actually really good boy putting it. Yeah, but often you're like, thank God you're coming with me so that you can just do the thing and I can fuck off. Yeah, or just like be quiet. Yes, well, you just like you go for it and that's like a great dynamic, right. Yeah, so this one event we went to, we went to and it was so strange because I think you thought I'd had an internal collapse and an aneurism and sewing good GAM very wrong, like a lobotomy. I didn't realize how bad I was until afterwards and you said to me, is that what it's like to go from event with me, Hannah, and I was like, what do you mean? And you said you were just taking me around and I was just not speaking. Yeah, like you were just we just go rize you for groups of people and we'd start this conversation and I'd start like sighing. I'd be like, Oh God, why did you kill a conversation? Wasn't saying anything, it was so strange, and I would sometimes be like yeah, I would be like yeah, and N I see, that's it. I would yeah, whereas usually I'm like so, who's your best friend? What do you think about Harry Potter and the deathly? How is part one, and I'd be like when you were a Childbo we like like so and I it was very stressful because I was like because I can do one on wine usually, but in my mind, and this wasn't because of anything you were doing, I was like, Oh my God, I have to be double this because Hannah's being like like probably one fifth of her usual and also that's so obvious to me. While the person was other person was talking, I was like, okay, think of a question. Think of a question, think of a question until they stop talking. Another like question. My Mind, I'm like Hannah has nothing. Oh, that's so. I'm really sorry. That was just one. HAP I just don't care, but it's like I said to my I said to one of my friends the other day, like something about how someone said, Oh my God, are you okay, or just after looking at me, and they were like well, you don't hide when you're unwell, and I was like fucking now, like wow, okay, but I think it's because, like I'm so hyped up all the time. Then when I'm not like that, someone's like who's died? Yeah, and that's awful, but like that's just my I had just have no I cannot overcompensate. When I'm like not good, I'm you know, when it runs at pause, like I'm just like the worst version of myself. Yeah, or I'm just like be my best friend. It's just one of the one or the other. Yeah, because the other weird thing about that event is usually like if I was alone, I would have acted in a different way, I think. Yeah, that's the only reason that I really noticed. You just carry me on your back, basically. Yeah, and I was like this is what you do every day to everybody. Well, I think he said to me once, and I'd never thought about this before, you said I think you manage every conversation you've ever had, or like you you carry the load in every conversation you've ever had, and I was like I've never ever thought about it like that before. Yeah. Well, well, I remember like last year maybe we had like my partner, I had a two people coming up, like a couple coming over and you said you were like, I'm alone, and I was like, do you want to come over, for didn't like we're making today, and you're like, Oh, I couldn't possibly, and I was like no, seriously, it's fine, come over, and then I said to you it's actually going to be more relaxing for...

...me to have you there as opposed to you not being at then your partner gave me the greatest compliment of all time at that did, and I would never forget it. He said, Hannah is social loop a hundred percent, and I was like that is my title. Wow, that's me. Yeah, that's gonna shows fiment. Ever, except for that day when I made you be the social live for everything. Oh yeah, it was exhausted and like it. What else for your sorry, we're going on about me and my expressions a bit painful. Well, I think this, this was illustrates, like when like this is how burnout looks. Is often acting in the way the sun kind and UN characteristic. Yes, because, like I said, I wanted to talk to everybody during the election. Why? Do you think? Because I was not in my normal state. Yeah, like being alone. I was like, God help as you actually so true. You were like that, yeah, that's really I was like, Oh my God, no one's at home, I'm going to come home to a empty hea. There were times I was like, I know my partner's not going to be at home, so I'm just gonna like stay here. I remember that. I remember work one afternoon and you usually, I usually leave it about five, live a bit earlier, and you were like. I was like, why are you here and you're like, well, no one's at home, and I was like that's whatever stopped you before. Usually I'm like, oh my God, no one's time by, I'm leaving earlie. And when you said that, I was like that was a siren for me. Yeah, yeah, we were. We totally flipped. Yeah, and because, like I think, we message. I would say there's and this is scary to some people, I would say we probably have message each other at least a hundred and fifty times a day. Yeah, and I being more on the days we don't physically see each other. Yes, and I think it was worse during the election. That's because when I would disappear for two to three hours, you were like, she's dead. There were times when you were not had not been active for like three. That was a message. I'm never like and I'm like, well, maybe does check instagram and see if you're there? And you weren't there either. I'm like fuck, where is she crazy that we can exist outside of my phone? That is quite crazy. I mean, I think the thing with cheek is that I don't feel like I do a lot of the time, and that's really dangerous. Yeah, I think it's fine to be honest. Or some people talk about like detoxing and hiatus is some people gone a high. It's like two hours and I'm go get all that or key, but at least I don't try and do that. Like I'm just like acknowledge and admit that, like, I am so dedicated in love what we do so much times. Never going to do that. Sorry. Well, I just this might be controversial on it burnout episode, because I think that, I mean social media does is quite damaging to a lot of people, and so it's like just being digitally on. But like, and I get and if you think that social media is causing you a problem, definitely take some time off, like absolutely, but I just don't fucking get, like I don't care about my screen time. No, no, like I really really don't give a fuck and like, obviously we work on our phones a lot of the time. That's why I don't give a fuck, though exactly. I was just doing that, but it's like every day I'm on instagram and, ticktock for cheek, I'm sending emails, I'm on my phone, I'm always available to take a call from work, like that's just a thing. Yeah, I just don't think it's necessarily black and white bad thing. Yeah, do you think? Like? I think one of the dangers that we have is that, you know,...

...we talked about logging off and things. I actually don't think I can do that. I think, like, I know we're just talking about that now, but do you feel guilty, like what do you feel when we don't do something for a day? I don't feel guilty because I'm actually quite a big fan of which is usually why I can handle my burn out. I'm like a fine switching up is very important to me and it's a high priority and I always do it like at least a few times a week. I'm like, nothing is happening to me. Tonight, I'm watching Netflix. No, I know, but I feel like we're talking about like not carrying about our screen time but at the same time saying we're very good at switching off. I'm not. You are. Oh Yeah, I'm good at switching I but like you're saying you don't care about your screen time because you like switching off. But switching off might be is like scrolling through teaktock is switching off to me. Oh See, I feel less healthy when I'm on my phone. Yeah, even though I think that's that's the difference. is like it's not necessarily like phone bad, because it really depends on the person. I just like the days I use my phone less, I feel better. Really, it just to me shows how busy I am. But I like I say I don't care, but I can act like it's funny because I'm like, I'm never going to limit my phone use, and I but I also actively know that's contradictory, to the point that I know I'm less well when I use my phone more well, I have put time as time limits on some of my apps, including instagrams, the main one, but I find assume they put the timer on it. I just automatically I'm like, well, I won't go on there because I don't want to like use up my because what if I need it for something? Like I have this like saving, I got save it, save my forty five minutes, but I don't. Actually, it's just because it annoys me, because sometimes, like, if I don't want to do something, I'll just like and it's going to scroll instagram and like getting nothing out of it. Yeah, like I really don't get anything. But Tick Tock is like a good happy place for me. Yes, I love Tick Tock. Yeah, I know you do, and it doesn't make me feel bad. Yeah, I mean changing gears a bit. Do you feel? Like how do you feel about activists burnout and like what we've done this year, as opposed to someone who has to actually live with like the sheer fact of being, you know, a first nation's voice in the advocacy space? Like you don't get to switch off. You are that is who you are, and it becomes so attached to who I, as a person was. I feel like what cheek is like. Well, we could just be like ce at any moment, like we're choosing to do this, where as other people don't have that choice. I should think there's always a choice. Yeah, okay, but I think the thing is people who, and I could be wrong. Can Tell me if I'm wrong, but I think that thing is like if a safe we're talking about a person like that. there. It's because, like the issue is so important and tied into their very being. Yeah, that is where it is, because it's like you can't, you can switch us off from being like a first station at first nations activist. You can't switch off from being a first nations person experiencing morginalization in the community. That's the thing. It's like you can't detach or isolate yourself from the treatment that you've received, right, whereas, like we're privileged white women. Yeah, I could easily be like I never want to do cheek again tomorrow. I mean, we would never fucking do that. Like that would be it for me, like yeah, right, my life, my life, happiness overall level, would just like...

GNUT. But I think there is something to be said for the difference between coming from a place of privilege and trying to gear that towards activism, MMM, and it inherently being part of your life and never being able to step away from the the modalization that you face. Yeah, well, I think the thing for us, which is like probably like sounds toxic, and maybe it is. I know, I don't really care. I don't have any comment on whether it's toxic or not, but it is because for like people, we are the same in the way that we're like, well, we can handle it. Yeah, like we can push it much further than it should be pushed. And the thing is, like in an ideal world, know we wouldn't be doing that, but like in reality that is what we're doing, and it takes longer to burn out and then we like it takes us, it doesn't take us long to kind of get back into it, which is whether it's very lucky and we probably shouldn't be. Like I would never recommend that to anybody else. I mean I wouldn't recommend to you. Obviously, no, but we just do it to eat ourselves. Yes, I mean no, but that's the thing. Like I think we have this level of assumption between ourselves of like we're just going to do this, yeah, and that's just it, and where we've never been on a different page about any of that. MMM, I don't think. No. But the other thing with cheek is we both know that there are things that we can take our foot off the pedal on for a bit. Like as long as we're like posting for the consistency, consistently and the podcast is going up, then it's like it's fine. Yeah, like I haven't written an article for really long time, but we have content going up and it's fine. Like we do also know like what we can pull back on when we need to, and I think that's also really I mean it's that's like one of the big benefits of having your own business is like we know when we know what absolutely has to be done and we know what we can not do. Also, like the benefit of us is we kind of just know each other's schedules really well. So it's like, I know you're fucked this week, I'll do this. Yeah, well, like it's just very natural. Do you know? Actually think the worst thing about this period, and I'm going to diagnose myself as not burnt out anymore, might be a bit right. I'm traumatic. I think you can't diagnose yourself is not burnt out after one run. But also I had a really good run and then I slept well for the first time in a long time. That's really good. Yeah, so I do feel much better today. Anyway, it's all about the mindset. Also, I've I don't think it's actually it's not. It's so good. I think that's not that. I don't actually think like going for run is going to fix anyone's life, but I think it's my something about my mindset switched, which is great, and I like have good mental health. I'm very lucky. So I'm not saying a run is going to fix him mental health problems, because people who do that are canceled. Yes, anyway, was on point. Oh, the problem in this, this kind of period of time is that usually we take turns being burnt out. Oh of course, and this time it's like an external factor, external factors, and it's...

...like, Oh God, do you think we genuinely take turns, or one of US realizes the other is more burnt out to the other one decides not to be burnt out that one. Yeah, that's bad. There are plenty of times when you're like I'm just like so fucked and I'm like, okay, well, I'm fine, obviously, then that's I feel like that. Dude. Sometimes you're just like I'm not and I'm like, don't worry, I'll bet I'm perfect, perfect, perfect, but yeah, like, I mean, especially a week ago, when you're like, Oh God, when you had your weekend, I had a weekend. It was real bad, and I was like I'm fine, so because that's back. And then, like a few days I was like, okay, I've got to do these things, because Hannah's like can't do that. I can shut it up in a body of water, and I'm at the bottom of the body of water and you're like doggy, partly like, but then like, I think, because you'd actually did bounce back from that quite quick twy for hours. Let me know. Yeah, and when and when you were like when you seem like you're actually fine again, I was like, I'm not fine. That's the thing. I feel like. So we went up for lunch on Tuesday and I think you were prepared for me to be like a ball, like just like the worst version of myself, and then I was like so I'm perfect, and you were like Whoa Fuck, okay, you're like I'm back, I'm back clean, I think. And then when I was fine, you were like perfect time. So in a way, I least she said that to you. I was like, it's my turn now. I'm not, I'm not fine, yeah, and then we just put the thing is, I think there is some power and just both of us being totally off the planet this week. Yeah, yeah, because we bounced back now. Yeah, do you think? I think it's so toxic that I'm also talking about bouncing that? I know it is. That's what I do some time saying that, but because I feel like I have I don't know like that if there's a solution to long term burnout, especially because we are so entrenched in this like girl boss culture, like everything we say, we've said this episode probably sounds a bit unhinged, but I think everyone can relate in this space at all, whether it be just working engaging in politics. Like this is a very common threat at the moment. But I think the thing is is, like, I don't like having more than a bad day. Yeah, and often, like I think one of the key signs is that this mood is fluctuating and it is coming back more frequently, but I often will bounce back, have a bad day, have a good week, have a good month, have a bad day, like, yeah, that's okay, and that's that's just mental health, right. But I think it's about actively taking the steps to do something. So starting running. I'm booked in to see a psychologist, going out and doing more nice things, taking a break every once in a while, not letting myself have a whole weekend where I don't do anything and I want to fucking cry all the time. Never do that crazy. But the other thing is, and like, at the end of the day, I think, because I don't think that activism at or advocacy or whatever you want to call it, is for everybody, like people just like some people are just knock cut out for for it, like it's not for them. Fair enough, and I think that it is just is for me. And like the other the thing is like, yes, I could probably just switch off from a lot of causes and like stop caring or like stop doing things, but I would feel so much worse if I did...

...that. Like I know that I'm burnt out a lot and that's not ideal. But to me I'm like, well, this is a choice that I have made, knowing, like every knowing who, like, what kind of personality I am and the resource I have access to and like the privilege and my like good mental health, including that privilege, and like I've actually made a decision to like do what I'm doing and like that. That is like I've the power to make my own decision about my own life and which is and I know a lot of a lot of people have said to us, like are you okay, like on Instagram, and I I do really appreciate that and I have been getting that a lot in my life and I do really appreciate it in the times when I'm like probably pushing it a bit too far, but then, and that's this is not a comment on anyone who's asked if I'm okay, because I do appreciate that. But like, in the long run, at the end of the day, I have two sided jewel of these things and like I will take responsibility of the consequences for those actions and like that is fine, absolutely, and I again I don't want to sound like don't and ask me if I'm okay, because sometimes it is obvious that, like things are tough. Yeah, but overall, I don't and this is not about anybody specifically. The there is, like I have had people say, like well, this is not sustainable what you're doing, or like or even tell me to look after my mental health. What I'm totally fine and I'm like, well, it is sustainable for me because I'm doing it and I I will make the call when it is not sustainable anymore and I will make the call when I know when I need to break. I know that this is doable for me. It's like up to me and like it's actually not anybody else's business what I choose to do. And that's the thing. Is like, I think the thing that can suck with those sort of comments is, like you actually don't know how productive or not productive we are. You don't actually know the INS and outs of how much time this takes. And I know we go on about the hours during the election, but that was obscene what we were doing, and as temporary though, but it's like we have a plan. We do cheek in a very specific way and we do the right amount of content to balance our weeks. Like it's flowing naturally. It's not locked in. We don't have a long term plan, but we're going with the flow and I think we enjoy what we do. Like I get so much more out of teeth than it takes away. Yeah, exactly, that's the thing exactly. So we're fine, don't worry. Fuck this whole thing was a roller coaster. People are going to be like calling people wellness check. No, either. We are actually fine. blinked twice. If you're not, we can't see you. If you didn't find us a completely insufferable come back next Wednesday for a new episode. Could also find us on instagram at cheek media co or online cheek Mediacom. Do Date you? Yes, the flat. That's the one.

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