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The Weekly Cheek
The Weekly Cheek

Episode · 2 months ago

80. Is non-monogamy still taboo?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, we're talking about the societal taboos young people have broken down. 

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Hello, I'm Christin PARISONATO and I'm Hannah Ferguson and where co founders a cheek media. This is the weekly Cheek podcast. Before we start this podcast, I would like to acknowledge that the land that we are recording on is owned by the grow and turable people. This was and always will be abridginal land. All right, welcome back to the weekly cheek. Welcome. Where did you go on the planet that I'm back just for such a short it was such a short moment Um. Today we are doing part two of our taboo series. To series is probably a generous term for it. Two P M and this one we're talking about. So if you missed it, last week we talked about Um like taboos. It are still taboo, basically crazy, crazy, and this today, this episode immediately coming up in a moment, we're talking about to boost that, like our generation and like we're in different generations, like young people, have broken down in recent history. Okay, the first one I want to go with, and I think a bit of a conversation to be had about it, someone has said, talking about politics and deciding friendships based on political views. So I think it's not necessarily that, like politics itself, is taboo, but I think that there was. I think that it was more extremist in the past. Two not determine, like if you determine friendships based on political views. That was just like a lot and I think that that's becoming more normal as like we don't align as people and I can't continue this relationship. What do you think about I agree, I fully agree because like Um, I mean my parents, like happily, have really have friendships with people who have different political views in them. Do you think it means that our generation is too divisive and Polarizes Society? No, because I think conservatives a UM. No, it's because I think...

...that our generation like more than Um. I think that our generation has brought into the mainstream the relationship between politics and personal ethics and morals, and I think that also we're living in like the it's a divisive political world, Um, and I think that that has just resulted in us being like new absolutely, that's my opinion. Agree. Um, interesting consent. I don't think it's necessarily ever been to boo to talk about consent, but I always think it's been uncool. Yeah, I don't think consent is yeah, I wouldn't say consent has been, has ever been a taboo. I think actually rape has been a taboo. Talking about rape, yes, talking about what is rape, but then I think we're arguing. I think if rape is a taboo and Consentus A to boo. Yeah, but what I'm more mean is when I think it's more nuanced than that. I think it's not necessarily just pinning these topics as taboo. I think the conversation is more like we are more willing to clearly identify what is and isn't rape, what is and isn't consent, what circumstances are and aren't okay, and I think we're shifting from a culture of victim blaming to an assumption of believing. I don't think any of that has. I wouldn't class any of that has as being taboo prior but I do think what's taboo is being open about set your own sexual assault, because I think in the past people like, Oh, Whoa, don't talk about that, that's awful, but now we're like we have to talk about it, which is a resulting from it's just nuance. Really, we're mostly agreeing. We're agree we're agreeing very aggressively. But I don't think.

I don't know why. I just don't feel like that's a taboo thing. I think it's because I'm like it's like too important of an issue. I don't know, I just feel like, for some reason, anti saying that was a Chaboo. I don't know why. I think it's because taboo feels like it's like a h and I also don't think that the world I've ever lived in has felt like that about those things, because I've grown up in, I would say, a culture of consent and talking about your experiences. I have not really, no fucking way, absolutely not. That's so strange. It's only five years apart. But I'd say it's more about like the culture that we were individually in than the time, although I think a lot changed between like even me being in high school and you being in high school, to be honest, because, like, I would have been in grade twelve when you're in grade eight or like. There's a weird difference with Queensland Your South Wales. But I feel like a lot of this stuff that we were saying at school. It became very quickly unacceptable to use the word gay as an insult for example, and like use the R word, like I feel like we were all saying at school and then like it didn't take long and everyone was like, you can't say that. Yeah, I felt like when I was going through you couldn't say it. Yeah, and we both grew up regionally, so it's like fairly comparable. Yeah, even though I was in conserving Queensland. I think there is a difference between the regional areas we grew up in. I think that mine was more progressive and my school was more progressive, even though they were both they were both religious schools. Um wouldn't be odd. No, I don't think it was necessarily open, like I think. I mean even when I was at uni, you know, I would hear about Um. They were I've talked about it before. You know someone I know, a man I know, was accused of rape and it it took me a minute to get there to the point of believing her. I really did, even though I knew he was creepy, and I was talking about this a friend last night. Actually, Um, we remember this. We were talking about this House Party and how this is so fucked up as a memory. He was just chatting to one of our friends...

...and we were like, Oh, there he is, fucking having a go in the corner at her and we're like don't worry, it does that to everyone. That was the VIBE and looking back on that, I'm like, who was that version of me? Because, like it was at the time like Oh, he's fucking harmless, he's like a dad along exspiders given the fucking flick. But no, he's a fucking rapist Um. And you know, I think we all have had that sort of experience in whether it be in school, whether it be at Uni, where you you normalize that and it's more it's it's almost taboo to call it out. I think that's it like in a sense, like I still struggle to call things out. Yeah, yes, I would agree with that. I think that I've just I've like figured out my my thought is on on the talking about like rape consent. I think that previously it just was not important to society and it's becoming more important to society. Yes, there is a conversation shift and I think even in the last eighteen months it's to change monumentally. Brittaan Higgins, grace tames no contost, like those stories have shifted everything so, yeah, we're agreeing sex before marriaging kids before marriage or outside of marriage. I think that. I think that's been a while though. I don't know. That's a hard one to pin down. When things change. I think as marriage becomes less relevant, so to those elements, and I think when religion becomes less relevant, those things change. I don't think it's like one thing. I think it's the product of social growth. Do you know what I think is actually the thing for me is Um kids outside of marriage accidentally. This purposefully, because in my town there were a lot of people who fell pregnant accidentally when they were like outside of marriage or when they were like younger than they might have planned to have kids, and I feel like that was like that was that was happening a lot. It wasn't. It was not responded too well, obviously Um, but that was happening heats and I think like that's the difference. I think, yeah, there's a convert station to be had...

...about Um. For me, actually, I what I was, and remain, unfortunately, judgmental of women who I went to school with who have children young. MM HMM. And I remember reading my mom one day and it was it's because I am. I am unfortunately elitist when it comes to my education, not that I didn't go to a fancy private school or anything like. I literally went to a Catholic school and orange, right, Um, and I think I I was the first person in my immediate family to go. Like my parents didn't go to UNI. My Dad dropped out in U nine, joined the navy. My momate to you twelve, moved overseas. Um. I have extended family. You've been to university, but I got a scholarship to study law. I was always that that was my badge of honor, right, was being that person that was academically ahead. Always, it was always what I pride my personality on. And everyone had to know all the fucking time, right. I hate that about myself. Now got to uni. fucking hated every minute. straightforwards right, barely passed Um. But the thing is that when I was leaving orange and I was like, I have to get out of this town, I'm so much bigger and better than it. You know, you know the vibes right, like fucking yeah, I am just like I'm a star and being out back, right, and you know my close friendship circle or incredibly intellectual and we pushed the ship out of each other right and then when I left and I looked back, and you know, women here to school with were like staying in orange and having babies, and I would just remember ringing my mom and just being like fucking, who would do that? And she said Stop It, you are so judgmental, and I was like wow, being canceled by your mother. And you know what she said to me? And she and she said some people being a mom is the best thing they'll ever be and the most they ever want to be, and that's admirable and that is still a beautiful thing.

And I was like, Holy Funk, I'm fucking canceled and I realized like it really turned my world upside down, because I still love looking on their pictures, like when they'd have a baby. I'd be like Funk, it's beautiful, but I'd be like they're just in orange having babies, and you know it was because, like, you know, a couple had had like three babies at a time. We were like twenty one, and I was like fun, who would do that? Um, and it's like it's just a life choice hander and I'm not better than them. For them and I think it comes with the territory of being at union in a new city and on your own and and all that character development. But now I look at them and I'm like they are probably so much happier than me too, you know, and like who am I to say what's better and what's more worthy, Um, and I think that that really was a big thing for me. Yeah, I mean I was a bit thingy because, like, I think I've said this on the podcast before, but I finished school and I had two gap years and I stayed in my hometown Um and I worked and then I came to union after that. So for those two years I was pretty much all of my friends fucked up to Brisbane and I was like alone. Um, looking back, actually like very terrible time of my life. Um, but I'm fine now, so don't worry. And the thing for me that was so weird was that all of my friends who were taking similar paths that I was going to take, because my plan was always to take two years and then go to uni. So I feel like my mindset and the two years was always like well, this is temporary, this is a temporary is a temporary and I was seeing all of my friends lived the life that I was like, well, I'm I'll see you there soon, like I'm going to be there soon, and the people who will who will like left left, I guess. The people who were left over in Gympie, in the town that I grew up in, were just we're there, because they wanted to stay, and I was there temporarily because all the people who were following the path I wanted to pass, that I wanted to follow, we're gone, and I didn't really have like I'm in. I can't...

...pretend like I wasn't like the one of these people, because some people, people used to come into the pharmacy that I worked at and they would be like Oh, like, you're here, kind of thing, and I was always like adjust until the end of the year, like I'm leaving, like I was always obsessed with telling people yes, but it was more because I didn't want them to think that I was staying. I mean that is elitist in itself, and I didn't I don't think I actually thought that much about the other people who wanted to stay. But there was this one woman I remember so clearly, and we were having a conversation and I was like I just cannot fucking way to leave this place, like I just don't. I can't be here anymore for many reasons. So I won't go into but if you listen to the episode about my talking about being in a cult, maybe you will know. Maybe you get a little hint, a little hint, Um, and a religious culture was it was a religion. Anyway, you go and listen if you want details. Um, she said, Oh, wants to live in like overseas or something thing, aren't you? And I was like, excuse me, did you judge me for that? But I was. I was like what a weird I'm like. And then, but to be honestly, in my unevolved eighteen year old brain, I'm like you are having to go with someone who wants to go and live overseas and do something funny. You want to stay here for the rest of your fucking life and you're judging them. What the fuck? And like, I know, I was just like, you know, creating more judgment in reaction to judgment, but it's interesting, isn't it? Yeah, but I was just like that is like out of fucking line. No, I don't think it is her say that. I just think that I judged them for staying. They were judging us for leaving. Doesn't that make sense? But isn't it so weird to just be like, you don't want to go and live over disease? Well, why is that outrageous? But why is it outrageous that they want to live in orange for the rest of their lives or GIMP? I don't think that. I didn't think it was outrageous. At the time I didn't think it was outrageous, but now I just think, well, fair enough, some people will think it's outrageous that I want to do what I'm doing. Yeah, I guess, Weird. It's literally just two sides of a coin. But yeah, yeah, but I I just feel like it's...

...more acceptable one way. Sorry, because you're the person that would do you see what I'm saying? What I'm saying is it's interesting that people people sitting there going why the funk would you want to do that, when they just, you know, like why would a lot of people would think, why would you want to go to union work full time and Blah, blah, blah, like, you know, one of my friends in Um at Uni that I lived with said to me one day, you know, I know you're going to judge me for this, but like, I really just can't wait to just, you know, for him to take over and me to be able to stop working and have children. And I was like yeah, because I am. And you know what, that's not fair. That's not feminism. Feminism is about choice. That's the thing. I truant to do an episode about choice feminism because I kind of don't believe in it. Okay, but I'm gonna Union later, but unexplained dates. That's what I mean. Like, if it's about choice and it might not be, well, I'll give it that later. I think it's like it's wrong for me to judge that, because who would want to work? But for me it's like, well, I would rather die than have children and stay at home with them all day, at least now. And that's the thing. It's just who am I to say? Yeah, maybe there is taboo. Is still there? Next, next, I guess the taboo is, like the issue is like people accepting people living different lifestyles to you, gender identity. Yes, I still think it's a bit tough for a lot of course, but I think the way definitely on the on the right path to breaking down the Tiboo. But I also think it's more about education. Like my younger brother and sister, who are eighteen and sixteen, fucking school me daily on gender identity, gender expression, the differences the spectrum your sexuality. Like I constantly feel like I'm learning and I constantly like I don't know things, but it's just like about having an opens to the conversation and I think that it's so fucking fascinating. And every time I see someone who maybe is expressing their gender identity in a vastly different way to me, I just think like, unfortunately,...

I think wow, and I do think brave, and I want to stop thinking brave because that's literally just them being who they are. But in society I'm like fuck, yeah, that is so impressive. Yes, well, I think that, um, that's like braveness. braveness and taboo go hand in hand, because people only brave if they're going against a taboo. So I don't really have much to I think. The other thing about like Um, the difference between like Um when we went to school and when your siblings are going through school is that people are talking about it at school, and I know you can talk about it with friends and everything like that, but I just feel like so many like of your it's just formative years and if you're around lots of Um, you know, people of your own age, like kids of your own age, who are expecting themselves really differently than it, it's just like much, I guess not really necessarily easier, but like you're being so much more exposed to the different gender expresses, expressions and like, I mean, probably you're the same, but when I was at school, like that just wasn't really that wasn't a thing that was happening at all. And then, you know, at the moment, like my brother's eighteen, he's just finished school and he's working full time on a gap here and he called me the other day and was talking about his friends and introduced them with their pronouns and well, like I know them, but I was talking about one of his friends and he was like Hannah, they then and I was like, I'm so sorry. Yeah, he was like it's okay, fix it. Yeah, like I was like fucking l Whoa, and then he was like I've seen your thumbnails on Youtube. I think you need thumbnails for cheek and I was like okay, being back taken. When we have it's like when I have these conversations, I'm like Funk, I have so much faith in them. Yeah, I just love them. Yes, same, same. I know some millennials hate the zoomers, but I'm like, go off, Queens, things, a non binary royalty. I'm a zoomer and the younger zoomers than me are so impressive. Yeah, and I think that's actually the key to progress, is like not having these weird generational divides. I hate. We hate generation bads on this podcast, except even...

...the good ones, and like no, we have. Do you actually have boomers who follow cheek and like give us really good feedback and really enjoy our content, which were and always make a point? Like I'm a boomers. I know I'm not your target audience, but I'm like, it's okay, I don't mean like that. Women in caring roles and it being a job and treated as such. I think the mental load is a conversation that we're having. Oh Right, I thought you meant like women in caring roles like nursing, and I was like no, no, not. I think they're talking this person is talking about accepting that being a job like motherhood, not just being like this thing that women are lucky to do while their husbands are at work or something. I don't think we've broken that one down really. I think we're like it's on the right path, but I think we're still like, unfortunately, a long way off breaking that one down. I don't know, like I think that we are. I think we're cracking open the conversation about the mental load, the inequalities in relationships, in heterosexual relationships specifically, and I think there's a lot to be said about it, but I think we're like ten percent of the journey through. So I think we agree right. I would say less, to be honest. I think it's really just so prevalent, like I don't think where far, but the thing that always it's hard because, like, I feel like in our circles it's like going in the right direction and people are having these discussions, but I think in the wider world, like there's so much work to do still. Yeah, unfortunately, that's sad to say something happy. Non Monogamy. I actually don't think that that's been broken down at all. I think it has a bit struggle with it. Um. It's definitely a huge taboo for Straits, but I think, I think for the L G B D q a q a a plus immunity, it's being broken down. Why do you think it's...

...not frustrates because there's like one option that's like displayed for straight people. What is that? No, monogamy. I think it's like because it's like this is the norm, like and this is like the binary. Yeah, this is like the path that straight people are given. It's just like you, you are a woman, you marry man, you are together forever. Sometimes men cheat, you bring him back, cheats again, you're bringing him back. Cheats again, you say no more, goes off on it your he does whatever, goes and marries a younger woman. Then you are sad. I feel like it's like that's what is shown to straight people, whereas I think that people who are in the Um Queer community are like, well, we've already kind of like gone against that by like not being straight. Then it's like well, well, it's the oyster, you know, and then it's just like well, there's so many other options and way for relationships to be. No, I agree. I don't feel like there's another option for me, but I also don't maybe I'm just like a seeking highly monogamous relationships. I'm very monogamous. I would never be able to try anything else. Yeah, but that's but that's fine for you personally. But I don't think that that is based on I think that's just who you are personally. I don't think that's like about society conditioning. It's just personally. It's just that I I struggled to feel like in most circumstances that are not monogamous, that both parties are actually fine with it. Yes, sometimes it can be hard to believe, especially in straight relationship. I think that's the thing. I don't think it's always like well, the man wants this and the woman is like waiting at home. I don't know, like it's it's something I struggle with, but I actually try to engage with quite a bit of content about it to learn more. I think also because Um, straight relationships which engage in polygamy generally revolve around like weird religion and cult like behavior. So we've...

...seen like those men that their father like a hundred children, and there's all those documentaries about like sucking, targeting ship right and that's like that's like what the picture is painted as. So it's stigmatized so significantly. No, I was going to say, you know my hot take from the Mormon documentary. I watched the it's like it's called keep sweet, pray and obey. Obey someone in the someone recommended it in the comments to us the other day. It was I really liked it. I'm like really into like Mormon Colts, not into them, like into the content. A lot of people are. Feel like, I've never been into it, but a lot of people are. It's so fascinating to me. It's really fucked up and it's like just the worst for women. I'm not going to go all the way into because I think I'm going to write an article which I said that I was going to write two weeks ago but I didn't. Anyway, the point is in the so in the mainstream Mormon faith, polygamy was outlawed like a long time ago, significing it time ago, and then the Um so the Mormons are now called the Church of Flatter Day Saints, and there was a sect of like post that polygamy being outlawed, there was a sect that broke off and went out on their own and they're called the fundamentalists, Church of latter day sound saints, or like people calling the fundies, and they are the ones that have multiple wives, sorts of sister wives, and they all dressed in like those same dresses with their they have. They have long hair and like only a couple of like you know those head hairstars with like the poof at the top and like a braid down the back like the everyone kind of probably has seen that type like pictures and things, and so they're talking in this doctor docuseries, which I do recommend. It's very interesting. Um, they are like basically because polygamy is illegal, they're kind of like living in secret and then their marriages are like the first one maybe is legal, but then the marriages after that are God like marriages in the church. So they're not actually legal, but they kind of have to live in secret because they are, UM, like ostracized by wider society and also by the more mainstream Mormons.

And the thing that I found so interesting about this documentary is that the way it was filmed showed, like implied, that the biggest problem that the society had, mainstream society had with with the fundies is the multiple marriages. Like that's the thing that they were like so shocked by, and I thought, like isn't that so interesting, because they're literally like there's like hidden pedophilia, incest, like torture, manipulation. Um Uh, what's exploitation? What's that word where you like get money out of people falsely? Um, not, embezzling. No, it's another fun word. Get money out of like fraudile and just yeah, like like basically, Um, the I don't know. It's like when so people tied to the church and then they're like basically like the king of the fundamentalist just takes the money and like does whatever he wants with it. Yeah, I know what it is, but word no, meaning that anyway, leave us a comment if you know. Um, so all that ship was happening, but people like couldn't get there. Like they have multiple wives, like act crazy and like they're not doing it in any kind of ethical way, obviously, but I just found it so interesting that like that's the thing that people are so shocked by. It's interesting. It's really weird like reflection on society, in my opinion, because people can have like multiple relationships like in an ethical way, and obviously it's very different when it's not ethically and polygamy is like illegal whatever, blah, blah, blah. But just that, the fact that people could never get on board with or the fact that people found that the most shocking element, is just so weird to me. Not Settling the bottom of the barrel relationships. I don't think that's to stigmatized, Mani I think people are still doing that way...

...too much. I literally think if you listen to our marriage episode last week, you see me fucking pop off about the fact that everyone's unhappy, and I thought, I actually thought so many people are going to fucking come for me and be like, how could you believe is? You know what I think we should talk about. This is a bit Um off center from that comment, but like what we're talking about yesterday in the car, which is our disbelief in the fundamental goodness of people. Oh, people suck, people are fundamentally bad, and I think that it kind of stems back to it in a way. But like, unfortunately, my fundamental view about people is that everyone is self centered, everyone is acting in their own self interest and people will do the worst things in the world to each other in order to get one leg up, or you know what I mean. Like I I know that's not necessarily bottom the bar relationships, but it's just that everyone is just doing things that benefit them and like very few people, I truly think are selfless or acting in the with the goodness of others at at the front of their intentions. I'm a selfish person, you know. I constantly know that I am choosing to do things based on whether it suits me or not, whether it benefits me or not, but I'm not a bad person. But I think when we think about this, it's like, when I mean a relationship, it's like, well, does this work for me? To just give me everything I want? I know that's a lot. But I also think that what this comes from is this idea that we put our romantic relationships as the highest relationship in our life and we make it significantly more important than anything else, and I think that the idea of community and friendships and where this hierarchy sits and what's more important to people is the thing that destroys us, because I think that we put this pressure on our romantic love interest, monogamous inverted quotes. It's very head or I know, relationships is the most important thing to look to and if that's failing, our life is failing. And it's above our career, it's above, you know, our friendships, it's above everything we do in our communities. That's the problem. If, when, and I also think it stems from funk, I'm really going for it now, the inability of men to seek emotional support in anyone other...

...than their intimate partner. If we took the pressure off these relationships, less people would scrape the bottom of the barrel for them and we'd all be much happier. I have such strong friendships both at work and in my personal life that being by myself, while I will say, dating destroys me. I find it so fucking difficult and so much pressure, because we have been taught that it is the beal and end all and if you don't have someone, you are hollow in some fucking sick way. And I think the thing is is that we scrape the bottom of the barrel and we take anything that we can get because we're afraid. We're afraid of being alone and we're afraid that we have this huge missing piece of our puzzle. And if you like you should watch Daniel Sloss as special jigsaw, because it talks about this very well. But that is my view. My view is that we scraped the bottom of the barrel because we're so obsessed with this idea of romantic love and having a monogamous partnership for life and we choose just the most foul fucking companions in order to get there. Well, I think that people just think that it's better to be in a bad relationship than alone, which is so untrue. The other thing is when you're talking about being selfish, I actually think like the word, when you look at the definition of the word selfish, like it's actually not like an evil thing. It's not like you. Definitely people can do it in an evil way, um, but I think, like really, like it's hard not to be self centered because you are, you, Um. But I think that there is a taboo around the word selfish because, like, sometimes, like, I don't know, I don't think I'm a selfish person in the colloquial I use of the word, but there are plenty of times where I'm like, no one talk to me because I want to be alone right now. That's that's doing something selfish. It's just like funck off, not answering the phone, not answering the messages, don't talk to me, and canceling my plans because I want to be alone. That's a selfish act. I don't think it's a bad thing because also me doing something like that makes me better for when I'm back with people again. Absolutely, I also think that, pad with self awareness, selfishness is healthy. Agree. I think that it's about the fact that, like when I...

...think I'm engaging in selfish behavior, which is often, I am aware of it and I know why I'm doing it, and I think the question becomes like when someone is selfish just because they're selfish. It's kind of reminds me of this is a bit weird as well, but you know, when you feel ashamed or embarrassed about something that you've done, the thing I always do as my first point to try and relieve myself of the guilt or shame that I feel, is think if someone, if someone did this to me, would I think about what they've done? No, often I'd find it funny. Right, no one is thinking about anyone else. I don't think about the ship my friends did when they were drunk five years ago. I don't think about the ship that was said to me in school. I really am just obsessed with myself and everything that I do. And when I feel bad about these things, I think, does anyone else care? Not Really, because we're all just fucking little planets inside our own minds, walking around thinking about ourselves all day and we don't really care exactly. We care to the extent that it impacts us and that it fulfills or does not fulfill our lives. But beyond that, like I inherently believe we're all selfish and it's not necessarily an evil thing. No, it's I think it's natural, it's human nature. And the other thing is I think that people who are like Um, a lot of people who are struggling in the world like, whether that be Um, like parents, particularly single parents, Um like women who do everything for their husband and children and everything. People who are like work like too much to the point of burnout. It's because of a lack of that like they don't have the opportunity to be selfish, or may or they select not to, depending on the situation, obviously. But like, if you think of like the typical like burnt out, stressed, tired single mom, like she hasn't been able. She can't be selfish because there's no time in the day, and then she is not like a happy person, you know. Or maybe it's not like the best person she can be and it's not necessarily what she chose exactly. So I think that it is good to be self selfish. It's a form of self care. Yes, and a pod...

...and a pot. If you didn't find us a completely insufferable come back next Wednesday for a new episode. You could also find us on instagram at cheek media co or online cheek media DOT COM. Dott you, yes, that's the one. That's the one.

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